Underwater pump.. wrong voltage??

[trevmai]

I went to work on a water fountain today. There was 2 underwater lights and a water pump in the water. Once the founting was drained i tested the voltage of the 2 cables. The lights were running off 12v and the water pump was running off 230v. I was thinking to myself 'this can't be right', so i tested it again, still 230v. Are you allowed 230v in a fountain pool?
The water pump is nackered and needs to be renewed, but aren't these pumps meant to be 12v?

 

[Steve]

Why? my pond pump is 230V 50Hz 55w.

The windings of the pump (and the whole electrical side) are sealed for life, only the core magnet and moving parts being accessible for cleaning.

OOI, have you tried cleaning the pump? I thought the same of my pond pump, but I opened it up and cleaned the shaft and impellor assembely and it worked again. They aren't totally maintenance free.

 

[Spark123]

Don't see why a submersable pump can't be 230v tbh, as long as it has been manufactured for that purpose. Would be advisable to have it on an RCD.

 

[trevmai]

I thought it was 50v or less in or near water.
The impellor had broken so wwe are going to renew it as we kind find the same brand, sticker and printing had faded

 

[Pensdown]

Quite a lot of bore hole pumps are 400V. As long as they're deigned to run under water it's fine.

 

[Spark123]

Is it a private garden pond?

 

[breezer]

Fountain pumps are 230v ac

There are some 12v and 24v pumps but they are just too feeble.

Some big fountains have surface mounted 415v pumps

The 230v pumps have to be "sealed" so there is no way the electrical connections can be exposed to water.

However the law says that fountain lighting must be 12v, no matter how big the fountain is. (But i cant find the actual law / rule, but you can not legaly buy a mains light for use in / near fountains or water features in the U.K.

The biggest UK available 12v light for fountains i Know of is 300w
But in general they are usualy 50 -100w and "garden pond" lights are only 20w

In America they can still have mains lights in their fountains some are 500w

Below is an example of a mians pump in a fountain (no its not mine)

View media item 3568
Being a sump pump it draws a lot of current for what it does.

any chance of a picture of fountain and its pump?

 

[trevmai]

The cable from the pump goes into a underwater box, filled with some jelly.
Inside this box it is connected to the incoming 240v cable with a connector block.
Is this allowed?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

However the law says that fountain lighting must be 12v, no matter how big the fountain is. (But i cant find the actual law / rule, but you can not legaly buy a mains light for use in / near fountains or water features in the U.K.

If you can't find the law, or at least know what it is, how do you know it exists?

I've just tried a few likely searches, and have found nothing which refers to any such law or regulation on sites where you might expect it to be referred to.

If the light is rated for permanent immersion, what makes it illegal to sell or use?

 

[breezer]

i understand what you are saying, and as i mentioned i cant find said law.

but try this then.

find me in the uk a mains operated light for use submerged (it must run directly from our 230v ac mains) as in ip68 that i can buy (no transformers, leds etc.)

Yes you can import them, but you cant use them legaly. Thats the problem. also as its a special location part p will have to be considered and i wont pass.

I would dearly love to have a place to direct people to to point it out, i have given up asking (but its very nice off you to help)

 

[BS3036]

I just typed in 'mains pond lighting' and came up with this as the first link show. Not definitive, of course, but gives a different view on the matter. I seem to remember being given some old pond lighting based on PAR80s some time ago, but I could be remembering incorrectly. I imagine making a safe water-proof seal is going to be costly.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

i understand what you are saying, and as i mentioned i cant find said law.

So for all we know there is no law, just a myth perpetuated by people saying "I know it's against the law but I don't know which law".

find me in the uk a mains operated light for use submerged (it must run directly from our 230v ac mains) as in ip68 that i can buy (no transformers, leds etc.)

SeaPar 1200w HMI
Bulb 1200w Par 64
Voltage 120/240 volts AC
Colour Temperature 5600 Kelvin
Diameter 10.5" reducing to 6"
Length 15.25"
Weight 12.2kg in air
Weight 1.8kg in seawater
Depth rated 240ft
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SeaPar 64
Bulbs FFN/FFP/FFR/FFS/FGM/FGN 800/1000 watts
Voltage 120 AC/DC 240v AC
Colour Temperature 3200/5200 Kelvin
Diameter 10.5" reducing to 5.25"
Length 10.25"
Weight 9.5kg in air
Weight 2.25kg in seawater
Depth rated 240ft

Yes you can import them, but you cant use them legaly.

Which law do you contravene if you do use them?

Thats the problem. also as its a special location part p will have to be considered and i wont pass.

Part P requires reasonable safety.

You can get LV pumps safe to leave underwater.

You can get LV transformers safe to leave underwater.

You can get luminaires safe to leave underwater.

What is intrinsically not reasonably safe with a LV luminaire designed to work underwater?

I would dearly love to have a place to direct people to to point it out, i have given up asking

Have you considered that the reason you've never been able to find any proof that they are illegal is that they aren't?

 

[rssteve]

i think you are getting mixed up between a pond and a swimming pool. ELV is a must in a pool IIRC

 

[breezer]

i mean (as you you full well know) for a pond, fountain or water feature. the one you linked to is for sea use.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

find me in the uk a mains operated light for use submerged

What makes it illegal for me to use that mains operated light available in the UK in a pond?