Universal beam question

Or any idea how I could calculate it?
Unfortunately you can't do this yourself.

I suggest that you get a structural engineer to size this beam. He'll be able to eye ball it in minutes if he's any good. To get a building control calculation, he'll need to spend an hour. If you're lucky, a steel supplier might offer a service that does this kinda stuff if you promise to buy the beam. Unless head height is extremely important ,do not go for a column (UC) section as that will cost a disproportionate amount extra. You can double up the beams (we don't typically do this though), but it complicates the calculation even further so don't attempt this yourself (or this forum, unless you're paying someone).

Most of the numbers in this thread are inaccurate or just plain wrong. If you're going to make important project decisions based on this advice, you'll regret it later and have to pay for it. Or your ceiling will crack. Don't try to use an on line calculator for this as I'm not aware of any that can size a beam for free. Just working out some plywood loadings won't get you very far. I'm not being nasty - I have some experience of this stuff.

It's a bit complicated to design steel work. You can probably short cut the point loads onto the beam and just assume a uniform loading, but the simplifications will have to stop there. All the other stuff is harder. Your beam will be sized according to other criteria than just load. You will need to calculate the deflection (as this might be the deciding factor). You will need to consider how the roof joists connect onto the beam as that affects the beam size /strength. Also, don't forget what's holding up the beam. And it depend on what type of roof it is too.

For estimation, go with what the people here are telling you but don't try to refine it any further and allow plenty of room for a deeper beam.

PS. For what its worth, don't forget that roofs often fail by being sucked off, not falling down...
 
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Yes, that would be helpful

You're not really getting an engineer involved then, you just want a freebie?
As I said earlier, I am, clearly, obviously getting an engineer involved before anything is touched. At the moment I'm designing possibilities and want to know if I can get a beam under there with the small available headroom. No point paying an engineer if it's a non-starter at the beginning. Call it a freebie if you like ;)

Cheers
Richard
 
And when someone on here says you can, and you do all this design work, and then the engineer says you can't .......

Or someone on here says you can't, and you include for a post, and then an engineer says you don't need one .....
 
Yes, that would be helpful ;)
I'm sorry, but it really wouldn't.

Beams are not selected according to the weight acting on them. They are sized according to the maximum bending moment, shear force (not relevant here), effective length (which may /may not be the physical length) and deflection. Ascertaining the loads is the easy bit, but is only about 25% of the process which then gets more complicated. You'll need a second calculation for the beam bearing.

What would be helpful is to get an experienced builder to come out and eye ball the beam size. He should be able to guess it pretty well if he's done similar work before. He should also be able to tell you how to support the beam and if you need piers. You'll still need calculations for Building Control though. Remember to steer away from a UC unless you're willing to pay a large excess. A UC would also probably flag a warning to the inspector for further checks.
 
Sigh. On the basis of the facts now in your possession, would anyone like to agree or disagree that the beam sizes and spans that have been suggested might be possible? Bearing in mind that a SE will be involved so I'm not actually going to remove or build anything based solely on your advice.
 
A flag in the sense that why would a domestic customer pay lots extra for a simple beam installation when it's typical to use a UB? I would look at it closer. Unfortunately there are some builders who stick these things in "'cos we had one lyin' about".

I saw one of these recently in a post office that was having a flat built above. It looked like a 305 x 305 UC. It really struck me, and I can't think of any conceivable reason to use a beam that size spanning less than 4m in a domestic dwelling. It was then bearing onto a couple of engineering bricks! Rail bridge, yes. Post office, no.
 
A flag in the sense that why would a domestic customer pay lots extra for a simple beam installation when it's typical to use a UB?

Interestingly, I've just been looking at the SE calculations for the support of my dormer faces from some years ago, where he's specified 152x152x23 universal column sections. So perhaps less unusual than you imagine.
 
looking at the SE calculations
Only in that you paid a lot extra for it over a UB. Roughly speaking, strength increases and deflection decreases exponentially with depth. So a beam twice as deep with be four times as strong. Don't they normally build dormer windows with wood?
 
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