Unusal Shower Problem, NO RCD, Trips MCB, Rented House.

[sjwkmje]

Hi All,

Living in a rented house at the moment. The wiring is a mess here and as we are only here for a year (a couple of months left on the lease and we will not be re renting this house). The shower since day one has been a pain, random MCB trips. The whole job is a mess 10mm not supported accross the basement just clipped twice to the joists and some support from it lying on top of the CU. This was just from a quick visual. No sleeving on any CPCs.

Its been triping the MCB for the last few days. Its a new install < year old and was never done to 17th edition. I noted this to them last time they tried to bs me as they did not know my background.

So the landlord just comes rounds resets the MCB and says its safe to use. Me not been happy had him out today after it tripped again. I managed to have a look at a little more of how it was installed, no sleeving on the CPCs and it just looks a mess sign of a DIY job. The landlord fitted it just after we moved in.

He said it was because of water ingress and said he would be back (this would more likely cause a RCD to trip not MCB but he seemed confused with both terms and did not know the difference by the sound of it). He did no safe isolation I had to tell him it was live before he started to take it all apart. Told him I was a spark and suggested something more serious was wrong for the MCB to trip, no testing and inspection done, no IR checks done, did not take the CU cover off, no clamp meter to narrow down the fault, no suggestion of fitting an RCD for protection. He is calling in the shower manufacture Gainsbrough, should be fun when they see how its installed and not to there instructions!

Now for my own amusement I took the CU cover off, everything is loose. Could do with a good tighten.

What would you do? I am a tenant and a spark. Go down the Part P route and report it? We have nothing to loose as we are moving out but as a spark I think I have the duty to report this for the next tenant that might move in.

As for the fault I am going with loose high resistant terminal somewhere as nothing is tight in the CU but without any testing and inspection its hard to say. And I would suggest that as its a new install it needs a RCD and a PIR carried out this should be code 1? as there is no bonding in place. There was no EIC carried out.

Adam

 

[Spark123]

What size MCB and what size shower?
Doesn't sound like it has been done to BS7671:2008 or any other set of regs - you're probably right with the DIY approach idea.

 

[ericmark]

When one sees someone has got things wrong sticking ones nose in how ever much with good intention can cause allsorts of problems.

I was at university and I was doing a PLC program as part of the course. On the paper work it asked for health and safety issues. I thought that the lecturer knew there was something wrong and expected us to point it out.

Looking carefully I realised the PLC was designed to be mounted inside a cabinet and the size of cooling slots and method to access live terminals would not comply with BS7671 and the manufactures web site also referred to how to comply with regulations they should be mounted in a cabinet.

So I entered this on my report. Ups. It seemed the lecturer was unaware of this problem and as a result of my comments the universities health and safety department had done an assessment.

They had in turn decided that there was no problem and had told the lecturer he was to interview me on my return and if I was unhappy at working in the PLC lab I was to be offered some other function as part of the course.

At the interview I tried to explain. But quickly realised if I continued I would no longer be able to study PLC’s so quickly assured the lecturer I had not problems with the set-up.

I very nearly ruined any chances I had to continue with my studies. And only loser would have been me.

You could also be digging a hole for yourself. Remember all health and safety things have to be in writing. And once you write that first report it can snowball. You can see the questions and answers should anything go wrong. Why do you think it was unsafe. Because I am a spark. Why did you not xyz.

All very public spirited and full of good intent but it still may be better to say or do nothing. At least until you are sure the land lord can’t give you any bills or attribute any blame.

You can see it now. The last tenant was a spark so I let him do alterations thinking they would be to regulations I had no idea of what he was doing.

Be very careful spite and be very venomous.

 

[Zambezi]

The sooner they get landlords to get the electrics checked out (like they do with gas appliances) the better. I do a bit of work for lettings agents and the state of some of the installs is shocking (excuse the pun). I let them know when I spot dodgy work and pass on the info to the landlords but 1/25 landlords will ask what needs to be done to rectify and 0/25 will pay to have it done. Why, because they don't "have to" like they do with gas?!
I know of a number of properties that have NO main earth conductor or where the cable is not connected to the earth rod etc but they will not put it right!!! Makes me mad!

 

[sparkiedave]

seem to remember from talking to a property legal eagle, that if they don't have the electrics checked and something happens, they can get in trouble because they have not taken "all reasonable precautions", if there are things you can see by a visual inspection, ie, not dismantling, I would leave a letter for your landlord telling him that in your opinion the system is unsafe, and let him know that you have kept a copy so that if anything does happen in the future you have proof that you have told him, or you could do it via e-mail, again, print off a copy including the date/time etc, that way your conscience should be clear and he has a bit more pressure to get things put right, personally I think there should be something in every rental agreement where the landlord states that all systems in the property are safe, after all, if you rent a car and the brakes turn out to be faulty, chances are the firm can be prosecuted, why shouldn't it be the same for houses?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

When one sees someone has got things wrong sticking ones nose in how ever much with good intention can cause allsorts of problems.

Never, ever, EVER a reason to fail to do what you know is right.

as a result of my comments the universities health and safety department had done an assessment.

They had in turn decided that there was no problem

So had you been wrong in the first place, or were they wrong in their assessment?

At the interview I tried to explain. But quickly realised if I continued I would no longer be able to study PLC’s so quickly assured the lecturer I had not problems with the set-up.

If you had been mistaken you still had done nothing wrong. You had a concern, you raised it, it was investigated and found to be groundless.

If you were not mistaken then you were wrong to allow them to bully and intimidate you into keeping quiet about something you knew could kill someone.

You could also be digging a hole for yourself. Remember all health and safety things have to be in writing. And once you write that first report it can snowball. You can see the questions and answers should anything go wrong. Why do you think it was unsafe. Because I am a spark. Why did you not xyz.

But that doesn't apply - he is xyz-ing.

All very public spirited and full of good intent but it still may be better to say or do nothing. At least until you are sure the land lord can’t give you any bills or attribute any blame.

You can see it now. The last tenant was a spark so I let him do alterations thinking they would be to regulations I had no idea of what he was doing.

Be very careful spite and be very venomous.

Adam - take no notice of Eric - put the boot in.

 

[sjwkmje]

When one sees someone has got things wrong sticking ones nose in how ever much with good intention can cause allsorts of problems.

Never, ever, EVER a reason to fail to do what you know is right.

as a result of my comments the universities health and safety department had done an assessment.

They had in turn decided that there was no problem

So had you been wrong in the first place, or were they wrong in their assessment?

At the interview I tried to explain. But quickly realised if I continued I would no longer be able to study PLC’s so quickly assured the lecturer I had not problems with the set-up.

If you had been mistaken you still had done nothing wrong. You had a concern, you raised it, it was investigated and found to be groundless.

If you were not mistaken then you were wrong to allow them to bully and intimidate you into keeping quiet about something you knew could kill someone.

You could also be digging a hole for yourself. Remember all health and safety things have to be in writing. And once you write that first report it can snowball. You can see the questions and answers should anything go wrong. Why do you think it was unsafe. Because I am a spark. Why did you not xyz.

But that doesn't apply - he is xyz-ing.

All very public spirited and full of good intent but it still may be better to say or do nothing. At least until you are sure the land lord can’t give you any bills or attribute any blame.

You can see it now. The last tenant was a spark so I let him do alterations thinking they would be to regulations I had no idea of what he was doing.

Be very careful spite and be very venomous.

Adam - take no notice of Eric - put the boot in.

Its a type B 40A 8.5kw shower.

Bas, planning to. Before we all move out I will get some photos. Turns out this house is been renovated when we move out so I am guessing a rewire is on the cards. Still going to mention it, might come in handy if they do not let us have our full deposites back

Adam

 

[sjwkmje]

Hi All,

This problem took a very big spin last week. The landlord came out said he was getting out the manufacturer. I made sure I was about when he came out. The guy was an ex tools spark knew his stuff took the shower apart and showed me a big 25mm hole in the back going into the wall with the 10mm cable trough it. The land lord had modified the shower to take the location of the cable. He said bodge had a cup a tea said he refused to touch it, isolated it and off he went. Seemed happy with the tea. At least he signed to say it was a bodge.

Spark came out today, he replaced the shower moved the cable and left. Also happy with the tea and biscuits.

No one at this point took the cover off the isolator and CU or did any testing or inspection. This new spark was in and out in an hour no testing or inspection.

New spark did not seem to even care there was no RCD or any signs of bonding.

So get home go to have a shower and it tripps the MCB again. I was fed up took the CU cover off and the netrual is really loose I could pull it free without any effort. Some signs of arcing, loads of charcoal. I would trim the cable back and re term if there was slack or replace the run of cable. Left it put the cover back on. Landlord just turns the MCB on and says safe to use.

I am at the moment writing a letter to the landlord stating my concerns and any deveations from BS7671. Is this the best approach? I refuse to mention I took the cover off but any good spark should have done some testing and found what I found.

I WOULD NEVER in a customers house install anything with out testing and inspection and a issue cert. So how does this guy cover him self if it sets fire to the house or kills some one?

Adam

EDIT:

10mm cable t+e type B 40A MK 45A isolator

 

[Spark123]

Phone him up and tell him there is smoke coming from the consumer unit so you have switched it off. Can he get someone out to it ASAP!