Unusual BT external wiring....

[Gorlak]

Hi all!

I'm having some issues trying to get my broadband sorted for my newly rented house in London. We had BE* Broadband service activate on Monday but haven't been able to get a connection at all since it went live. Having worked this through with BE* Support and reading many forums, I have a feeling its down to our wiring. We have a set up pretty much as follows -

and I am now under the impression it should be -

The line comes off the telegraph pole to the front of the house into one of these -

and 3 cables come out and pass through the walls to each floor of the house. These terminate internally, each into NTE5 boxes and I'm not sure which is a 'true' master socket. I've connected the router to what I think is the master via the test socket at the moment but still the broadband is not connecting. These three NTE5 sockets are in the bedroom, the lounge and the kitchen - only the lounge seems to pick up a broadband signal, but it won't synchronise with it. The lounge socket has 2 internal, traditional extension sockets running to a back room, but by connecting to the test socket I should be isolated from these?

The properties around us mostly have similar wiring set ups, which makes me think it wasn't the previous occupier who set up the wiring. If it had been the previous occupier who'd connected eveything up like this, I was nervous we'd be fined by BT for tampering with thier network...

Can I get BT to replace this "star" wiring set up as the junction box is branded as theirs and as we seemingly have 3 master sockets? The phone line quality is not good (its really quite and quite unclear) so I'd use that angle when talking to BT. Can anyone offer advice on getting a more modern set up? Or possibly advice on how to deal with BT or my ISP?

Thanks for your time,
H


PS: It has been suggested I need to have an 'LLU Special Fault Investigation', where if the problem turns out to be a botched migration BE* will pay for it, but if it turns out to be my wiring, I pay for it. It costs about £150.

 

[JOHNBOY42]

The second drawing is correct...the line should always terminate on a master socket ( nte5 ) before any extensions are fitted so you can have a demarcation point...the problem with star wiring is if you have a fault on any one extesion it will affect the rest of them....and 3 master sockets will certainly cause major problems with the signal....ring your sp and raise a customer complaint stating that the wiring is not up to standard...is you request a openreach engineer comes out you willl end up with a bill...even with a complaint your sp may try and push the bill to you but be adament and get confirmation that any visit will be foc

 

[Chri5]

Look in the on site Wiki under UK electrics / telephones

Sockets should daisy from external jb to master then master > 1st 2ndry > 2nd 2ndry etc......

 

[Gorlak]

Yeah, its definitely the star type set up, not the daisy chain option. So its something I need to take up with BT? It appears it was there original setup/installation (due to the branding on the junction box) so I assume I can insist on an improvement/update on the external wiring?

PS: Thanks for the quick replies all, much appreciated!

 

[drgl]

Having 3 master sockets would not affect the BB, you say you can't get BB on ANY of the sockets?

 

[plugwash]

While customer wiring arrangements can affect broadband speed unless you are on the very edge of ADSLs range phone working yet not being able to get a connection at all suggests that the problem is more than likely elsewhere.

 

[sparkydude]

on the cable that goes to your true master socket are there cores connected to the secondary output terminals? if so then perhaps they have taken the master feed to the first socket then back to the jb with a pair and connected this to the second then looped to the third from the JB, it might not be standard practice but its quite common. Are you sure you have three master sockets ? have you looked at them all?

Nick

 

[roberta1000]

This (first - star - circuit) is actually not unusual at all but is very common in older types of house wiring from say over 30 years ago or so. For voice it doesn't matter at all where in the circuit the master is or for that matter if there is more than one but you'll probably find that there's actually only one. My own (1970's) house was like this when I moved in. BT are very unlikely to modify this for free because although they originally installed it, the wiring downstream of the 'junction box' (ie where their external cable terminates) is yours (or at least your landlord's).

This kind of layout is disastrous for broadband but BT will not consider this to be their problem. By the way the sockets which you've shown are the usual older type - not NTE5s - and you need to look inside to decide whether they are masters or not.

You'll almost certainly find that the ring wire (usually orange) is connected throughout. You can disconnect this at every socket since the adsl filters don't need it and you may find that removing it makes quite a difference to your broadband reception.

The best possible solution is to get an NTE5 in place of the junction box and to then replace the faceplate with one with a built-in adsl filter which will give you a direct broadband connection free from the other assorted wiring issues. I doubt very much though whether BT will do this for free.

 

[rjm2k]

Sounds obvious but have you tried this with everthing (includng any other extensions and sky boxes) disconnected and just the 1 microfilter and modem plugged in? a friend had no broadband for ages, turned out the sky box was the issue.

 

[Grizzly]

This (first - star - circuit) is actually not unusual at all but is very common...

This kind of layout is disastrous for broadband...

I have to say that the phone sockets are wired like that in my house (from before I moved in), and this has had absolutely no ill effect on my broadband. It all works perfectly well.

 

[TicklyT]

Sounds obvious but have you tried this with everthing (includng any other extensions and sky boxes) disconnected and just the 1 microfilter and modem plugged in? a friend had no broadband for ages, turned out the sky box was the issue.

I will second that.... Any unfiltered devices attached to the line, be it a modem, fax, telephone, sky box, etc, etc. can have deleterious effects on DSL signals. Bandpass filtering was not an issue for the designers of these devices because many were designed and put into production before broadband was even thought of.

I recently presented a customer with a bill for several hundred pounds after they insisted on a series of engineering visits to rectify a DSL fault they had introduced themselves by connecting an unfiltered fax machine to the line.

 

[aptsys]

I will second that.... Any unfiltered devices attached to the line, be it a modem, fax, telephone, sky box, etc, etc. can have deleterious effects on DSL signals. Bandpass filtering was not an issue for the designers of these devices because many were designed and put into production before broadband was even thought of.

If you have a monitored alarm panel, this may also be causing you issues.