unvented and combi

[dynomo]

aaaah mr JohnD, was just reading a previous post of yours
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=597000#597000

Sounds like you know a bit about water softeners. Funny enough, I get on really well with a JohnD on the electrics forum and he always helps me out when necessary...

I have yet to ascertain the precise facts relating to this installation. But a little information now would be a little heads up for me. For a typical un-vented pressurised system with no water tank but a combi boiler system, supplying a 3 bedroom property consisting of 2 bathrooms for example, with a family of 5, would this model suffice: Kinetico 2020c http://www.kindwater.co.uk/wsproducts.htm

I wouldn't like to be involved too much with electrics here and this model seems to suit my needs as all that is required is blocks of salt.

As a guide, can you advise which model would suit the above if the kinetico doesn't. And for minimal requirements, i.e. if it turns out that the property is a 1 bedroom flat, with 2 occupants, which model would work?

Thanks John

MOD 2

see rule 20 your post has been split

 

[JohnD]

for a family of 5, with two bathrooms, I reckon you'll want one about 800mm high. A little one might run out every day and need to recycle every night, so you'd be refilling it with salt every week or so, and on a Saturday night it might be delivering hard water by the time they'd done their washing and had baths. and showers.

this may sound an odd way to size it, but they all seem to be about the same width and depth, the smallest ones (my old one now dumped in the garden) is 650mm high, and my new one is 800mm high.

The box on the top containing the control mechanism is 200mm high, then you lose about 100mm at the top for overflow space, so you can see a bit of extra height makes for a considerably larger cylinder and salt bin.

My 800mm one I can carry when empty, I wouldn't want to lift either when full.

I don't trade in or install softeners, but I've fitted my own.

Have a look at the catalogues for amount of water delivered per cycle; it varies with water hardness so you tinker with the adjustment a bit after they've been installed for a month or so (I imagine, if a professional, you get to know how hard your local water is and how many litres they can soften between recyclings). you have to allow enough slack (since they recycle at night) to run the night before they run out, not the night after.

 

[dynomo]

cheers John

Any tips with plumbing one in, is it a simple case of connecting to the rising main? What pointers can you give with the drain from the softener, where can this be connected?
The overflow seems straight forward, but again, any advice on its positioning? i know youve previously mentioned that this needs to be located outside but Ive seen in many professional istallations that it just connects to the existing waste system, is this not common practice anymore?

thanks John, appreciate your effort here. Im a rookie as can be seen!!!

 

[JohnD]

you have two outlets.

the normal "flushing" hose that goes down the drain, and the overflow.

If you can lay your hands on the installation leaflet I think you will find it very easy.

If you send me a fiver I will copy mine for you

Rising main: one in, one out, one (normally closed) bypass. Flushing outlet to drain; oveflow outlet through wall.



They advise you to leave a hard-water tap for drinking water. Garden taps should be unsoftened.

p.s. Why have you titled this "unvented and combi?"[/i]

 

[dynomo]

oh ok, so you have to isolate the main drinking water tap from the softener system aswell as a garden water tap...cool
Does this mean you run a seperate pipe direct from the main supply and split this so that one feeds the drinking tap and the other feeds the garden tap? or is there some other way of achieving this?

ps. because i mentioned your previous post in my OP, the moderators split the message!! and they created the above title... rule no.20 they said

 

[JohnD]

on mine, i have the softy in the garage. I tap into the riser afer the garden tap has teed off.

Personally, I drink the softened water, because I'm not a baby, or old, or hypertensive, or on a low-sodium diet; but some families have people in one or more of these groups. Softened water contains a tiny amount if sodium bicarbonate, as used in indigestion remedies, in place of the dissolved calcium carbonate that makes water hard.

 

[dynomo]

cheers John you're a star bud...
Can i quickly ask you, what type of bypass valve do they require to be fitted, i'm looking at the following:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=34127&ts=43496#

 

[JohnD]

no it's just this sort of thing

so that when you shut off the softener Tees for mending, you open this and water can flow up the riser bypassing the softener.

Anyway, you should get all the valves and hoses when you buy the thing. It can be worth getting big-bore valves and hoses if you need good flow. the hoses are like washing-machine hoses, but are white, presumably non-tainting for potable water.

 

[dynomo]

appreciate all your advice JohnD...
You have guided this amateur through a once thought of as 'daunting task'. I have downloaded a few manuals and all seem to coincide with the knowledge acquired from yourself.