Updating my heating system with smarth thermostats

[dazzler9000]

Hoping somebody can help as I'm not too clued up in these things. I moved in last year to a house that has a Vaillant boiler with radiators upstairs. The rads upstairs are controlled by a Timeguard room stat and a Horstmann Centaurplus C27 programmer. The C27 is programed for set times of the day to provide heat to the upstairs.

Downstairs, I have a four-zone wet underfloor heating system (Heatmiser), where each zone is controlled by a Heatmiser slimline V3 thermostat. The downstairs heating again runs through the C27 programmer which is configured to run 24/7 as the programming/timers are configured on each room stat rather than the C27.

My plan was to upgrade the whole system for smart controls etc, I have an idea of what I need to upgrade for the downstairs underfloor heating system and I have the following items on my shopping list.

Heatmiser UH8-RF
4 x Heatmiser NeoAir V2 Smart Thermostat
HomeKit-Enabled Heatmiser Neo Hub Gen 2
Heatmiser RF-SWITCH - Wireless Receiver


But for upstairs, I'm a little unclear. If I wanted to control the rads upstairs, I'm aware that I can use a Tado thermostat and smart TRV's if I decide to go that far.

So my questions are, can the Heatmiser system operate anything upstairs, i.e. simple on-off for the upstairs rads (think I know the answer) or do I need another system such as Tado. If I need Tado, I understand that it will replace the Timeguard room stat but would I still need the C27?

 

[muggles]

You shouldn't need the UH8-RF, it's likely that your existing wiring centre will be just fine. You'll need NeoStats rather than NeoAirs to replace Slimline V3s, and therefore no RF Switch. You can use Heatmiser Neo to run the radiators too, which keeps everything nicely on one app. Ditch the C27 and use a Neostat in timer mode (or a Neostat-hw) to control the hot water.

I think you need...
https://heatmisershop.co.uk/heatmiser-neokit-2-smart-control-of-heating-hot-water/
and four of
https://heatmisershop.co.uk/heatmiser-neostat-v2-programmable-thermostat/

That should be it

 

[dazzler9000]

Hi Andrew, thanks for the reply.

I currently have the Heatmiser UH1-W and the slimline v3's I have are battery-powered and connect to the UH1-W via RF presumably.

I was told that to make the system smart, I'd need what I listed?? Are the neo stats battery-powered of 230v?

It's all a bit confusing for somebody that doesn't really understand these things....

Great news about controlling all from the one app, this would have always been my preference.

 

[muggles]

Hmm, I fear that at least some of the information you've provided is incorrect. A Slimline V3 won't work with a UH1-W. The PRT-W stat was the one used for the UH1-W, so maybe you have that? They look very similar.

If you're correct about having a UH1-W though (rather than a UH1) then yes, you do need to change your wiring centre. I'd recommend the following...

1 × UH8-RF wiring centre
1 × Heatmiser RF Switch
5 × Heatmiser NeoAir
1 × Heatmiser NeoStat-HW
1 × NeoHub

 

[dazzler9000]

Ah, you might be right.... I'd Googled it and assumed they were the Slimline V3 but I think you are right and they are PRT-W. Yes, I definitely have the UH1-W.

Thanks for the updated list. I will have a good look tomorrow and post back with any questions.

Is replacing all of the above generally a DIY task or the job for for a heating engineer? I'd wait for the summer anyway but my main concern is I break a working system and end up getting it in the ear from the other half.

Removing the current C27 and knowing where to plug the cables into is what worries me the most but maybe when I look at it all tomorrow it will make more sense. Thanks for the help so far though.

 

[muggles]

Could be DIY, depends on how confident you are with wiring. Most of it is like-for-like to change from the old system to new.

 

[dazzler9000]

Cheers Andrew, I had a look today in the junction box and it looks pretty scary inside. I've attached an image below showing what I've got. If it's just a case swapping like for like, I might be up to it! The problem is, if I finish and something doesn't work, then I will be in for it!!

So, as my upstairs roomstat is powered, would I need a Neostat V2 instead of the 5th NeoAir?

1 × UH8-RF wiring centre
1 × Heatmiser RF Switch
4 × Heatmiser NeoAir
1 x Heatmiser Neostat v2
1 × Heatmiser NeoStat-HW
1 × NeoHub

So, would I just remove all of the devices off the other end of the cables shown in my image and then connect the (presumably 3 cables) into the new Neostat v2 and Neostat-HW (guessing this replaces the C27).

How does the current system call for hot water for UFH? Is there a cable linked between the UH1-W and C27? Presumably, this would become and wireless link after the upgrade between the UH8 and the Neostat-HW?

Any word on whether Heatmiser will do their own smart TRVs as it would be nice to be able to control each room.

 

[muggles]

Worth checking the roomstat end to see how many cores are usable there. If you've got four then yes, a NeoStat would work. The wiring in there is pretty tidy, should be fairly easy to trace what goes where and get it all connected up. As you say, C27 gets replaced with the HW and your existing roomstat with the V2/Air. No, Heatmiser don't do smart TRVs and I don't think they plan to. I think Energenie ones may be compatible via IfTTT, but you'll have to decide whether it's worth the £30/year subscription to IfTTT to make it work. Alternatively, you could look at the Salus smart home system which does have TRVs, but their UFH stats aren't as pretty as the Heatmiser ones and there's no option for integration with either IfTTT or any of the voice assistants. I'm not aware of any manufacturer which offers the full combination of app-controllable UFH stats, smart TRVs, and voice assistant/IfTTT integration. You have to pick two of the three.

 

[dazzler9000]

Worth checking the roomstat end to see how many cores are usable there. If you've got four then yes, a NeoStat would work. The wiring in there is pretty tidy, should be fairly easy to trace what goes where and get it all connected up. As you say, C27 gets replaced with the HW and your existing roomstat with the V2/Air. No, Heatmiser don't do smart TRVs and I don't think they plan to. I think Energenie ones may be compatible via IfTTT, but you'll have to decide whether it's worth the £30/year subscription to IfTTT to make it work. Alternatively, you could look at the Salus smart home system which does have TRVs, but their UFH stats aren't as pretty as the Heatmiser ones and there's no option for integration with either IfTTT or any of the voice assistants. I'm not aware of any manufacturer which offers the full combination of app-controllable UFH stats, smart TRVs, and voice assistant/IfTTT integration. You have to pick two of the three.

Okay, sounds like I might be best off getting somebody into sort all of this as I can see me screwing something up otherwise. Wonder if there's anyone local that knows the Heatmiser systems, I'm in Southampton?

So just to confim; if I have the wires/power from my room stat (if I need 4 wires, it'll be an easy run for new cables), I can use the V2 or air (I'm favouring the V2 as I won't need to replace batteries.

Thanks, I'll check out the other offerings, but I really want to stick to one, so no doubt the Heatmiser. Are you a Heatmiser engineer? Do you rate their system?

 

[muggles]

I don't think Heatmiser have an approved installer list - I've certainly never come across one. I have fitted loads of the Neo systems though without issue and I'm happy to recommend them. Yes, if you go for the V2 you'll need four wires to the stat.

 

[dazzler9000]

That's great, thanks for your help, you have been very helpful.