Welfare reform bill vote today

[diy_fun_uk]

If we're being totally honest with ourselves, it's the social contract that needs addressing. However, understandably, political parties are reluctant to raise this in a significant way for fear of losing votes.

For example, how much £££ would be saved if we all did the best we could throughout our adult life to live in a healthy way. No, not hardcore healthy, but eating a decent diet, regular exercise, no smoking, little/no alcohol.

How much £££ would be saved if those who, in their heart, know they could work decided to proactively seek work.

Etc. Btw I've by no means earned a gold star myself on much of this stuff.

 

[blup]

It's certainly not easy.

You may think it is, but it isn't. You have to get medical reports, attend regular and repeated assessments even when your conditions are known to be chronic, debilitating and life-long. You face being refused and having to reapply or appeal and face a tribunal.

It's not what you think. Dosser fills in piece of paper and collects wonga thank you very much, it is not.

What it is, is demeaning. You feel that every condition you have is being questioned. Are you really ill? Are you really unable to do X, Y or Z?

And the worst thing is, you face being assessed by people who are not highly medically trained. People who ask "What's that? I've never heard of that?" when you tell them the name of your condition.

And they have reports in front of them from all your consultants who are highly trained in their field.

And this all happens when they know you have a serious ill health pension from your employer (in my case).

You feel less than worthless. You really do. It's dreadful.

No wonder people losing disability benefits and PIP have committed suicide.

Some of the most heartless barstards I have met work in benefits, they regard every claimant as a scrounger or potential scrounger. All the while totally blind to the irony that they have the system to thank for their careers

 

[securespark]

I had the misfortune to claim dole for a short period in the 80s. Everything they did in that office, the way they spoke, the way they looked at you, smacked of hatred and they looked down their noses, treating you like something they'd trodden in.

It was dreadful.

 

[Notch7]

How else - sovereign wealth fund "war chest" excepted - do you expect such capital infrastructure to be paid for?

It’s a very valid question.

PFI was used as trick because the assets were kept off the balance sheet so they don’t increase public sector debt…so they were used despite costing a ridiculous amount in repayments and rip off maintenance contracts

That’s clearly a nonsense.

It makes far more sense for govt to provide the investment funds via gilts which is the lowest form of funding for them and at the end they own the asset.


Labour have helped increase infrastructure spending by changing the way debt is measured.


Of course there’s always the ability for the govt to create money, whilst I’m cynical of MMT, there is more flexibility in the system than the household budget view of govt accounts.


And then there’s the big big problem U.K. has with the crazy problem U.K. has with major construction projects that make them so expensive and so slow. Multiple times more expensive and time compared to Mainland Europe etc.

 

[Notch7]

I agree.

However, coz of FPTP / two party / tribal nature of UK politics, that option is fraught with peril, especially for Labour.

Why?


One of Labour's fundamentals is public investment in infrastructure.

Tories, very much less so. So they don't have the problem to deal with.

Basically, Tories let it crumble ("saving" money - "We are the party of fiscal responsibility!"-type crap), knowing that Labour will have to pick up the poisoned chalice of fixing it.
The financing of which the Tories then use as a stick to beat them with - "They've increased the debt! They've put up your taxes! We are the party of fiscal responsibility!"





How to fund it?

Taxation - Tories go on the attack, and the electorate fall for the "Labour are the tax and spend party!"
Borrowing - Tories go on the attack, and the electorate fall for the "Labour just grow the national debt!"

Given the parless state that the Tories left schools and hospitals in, Labour had to do something to rebuild, while avoiding the traps above.
PFI was a solution.


PFI is crap, but it is only countenanced because enough of the electorate are the way they are i.e. tribal, stupid, deluded, childish.

Yes some great points.

It’s too easy just to say “PFI bad”, I’ve been guilty of that

It’s worth remembering NHS was in great shape in 2008, compared to now

 

[Justin Passing]

It's certainly not easy.

You may think it is, but it isn't. You have to get medical reports, attend regular and repeated assessments even when your conditions are known to be chronic, debilitating and life-long. You face being refused and having to reapply or appeal and face a tribunal.

It's not what you think. Dosser fills in piece of paper and collects wonga thank you very much, it is not.

What it is, is demeaning. You feel that every condition you have is being questioned. Are you really ill? Are you really unable to do X, Y or Z?

And the worst thing is, you face being assessed by people who are not highly medically trained. People who ask "What's that? I've never heard of that?" when you tell them the name of your condition.

And they have reports in front of them from all your consultants who are highly trained in their field.

And this all happens when they know you have a serious ill health pension from your employer (in my case).

You feel less than worthless. You really do. It's dreadful.

No wonder people losing disability benefits and PIP have committed suicide.

I've only just read this.

From my point of view it WOULD be easy if you knew that they're dishonest. THEY being the DWP contractors employed to assess - acting more like insurance loss adjusters.
The assessors are instructed to be difficult, to the extent that you say eg you can't wallk up stairs, and they say you can, and you're allowed only one reply and you had it already so F off. You can walk upstairs. They lie for a pastime.
They said I'd had my chance to object.
I threatened them that I'd document their aggressive incompetence to my MP.
I made a carefully worded statement, using their words to describe disabilities, and got my GP to sign it on headed paper.
DWP caved.

It took a lot more words than that. Point being, it's not the system that's difficult, it was the people (Tory gov at the time).

I think the threshold for payment is too low, and it sounds like Cons and Labs do too. But playing silly buggers isn't the way to deal with it.