What is mandatory for a PD loft conversion?

[mickyboy06]

Hi,
We are going to be having a loft conversion done and are at the beginning stages of research and planning etc. I have scoured the Planning Portal website and am pretty certain that we can achieve all we want under permitted development, I would prefer this to keep costs down a bit and make things simpler, (is this true?) The build we be to building regulation standards as we want it to be an official bedroom and the structural work done (probably the whole build) by a reputable tradesmen, with us helping if needed.

My questions are :-

1. If the work is done to Building Regs. is it mandatory we have to submit the plans for approval/checking, along with the fee. Can self-certification come into use?
2. Is it mandatory to have building control inspection.
3. Roughly how much should I expect to pay to get plans drawn up (see below).

Am I missing the point? Whats the point of PD if there is a process and extra fees that make it seem like a planning application?

Also just had my first quote back from a drawings/plans guy for £1350......seems ridiculously high and not including the other fees above if needed. Would be well over £2000 just to draw up and start a loft conversion under PD !

Feeling a bit confused when I thought I understood things well.

We had a front porch built at my last house about 4 years ago under PD and only had to advise the council of a basic drawing and that was all ok.

Thanks for your tailored advise, much appreciated.

Mike

 

[Nakajo]

Building Control and Planning are two entirely separate departments.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

As mentioned Planning and Building Regulations are completely separate. It is more than likely that your proposals do not need Planning Permission but getting Building Control approval is mandatory.

You would have to be nuts to not do a loft conversion on anything but a Full Plans Submission, there are far too many unknownss that a builder will need to know before he can begin.

As for fees, £1350 is not exactly on the low side of though not completely crazy either. Without knowing anything about the job as a guideline I would be around say £700 for the drawings and about £900 if you wanted a dormer. All other fees on top but then my running costs are very low!

You wait till you have to pay the Local Authority Building Control fee, the fee for the drawings will seem like a bargain.

Sounds like you need a reality check.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

You may find my posts in this thread useful //www.diynot.com/diy/threads/questions-about-a-loft-conversion.418758/#3250539

 

[tony1851]

Don't forget SE fees for the main beams you will need.

Get a knowledgeable tech. involved, not an Architect with a capital 'A'. With the latter, you'll probably just get pretty drawings with beds, furniture and people on them.

 

[Nakajo]

tony,fmt, what happens if/when a 'knowledgeable tech' successfully completes RIBA examinations parts 1 through 3? It seems like becoming bound to the obligations of continuing professional development should, on balance, be quite a good thing.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Err where you going with this?

 

[tony1851]

Recently, I calculated some beams for an Architect (RIBA, to boot) who had done plans for a loft conversion, with dormer.

The plans clearly showed that the Architect had no knowledge of structural design whatsoever, and had very little grasp of Building Regulations. In the end, I had to almost re-design it.

Granted this individual is quite young and inexperienced, but to my mind it calls into question the mantra that the profession always trots out, ie that it takes 'five years of university study and two years in practice' blah, blah, blah.

Letters after the name are all very well, but in the end it's experience that counts.

 

[Nakajo]

Well, I don't think anyone could argue with that.

 

[mickyboy06]

Thanks for your info so far.
I am not totally 'green' when it comes down to what I should be expecting for my money and certainly would not be parting with such a sum of money for any drawings/services that would not appear to be up to standard, just this process of dealing with regulators/planning is unknown territory.
If for example, a said drawing was missing vital structural information then surely Building Control would pick up on it? Or does a specific 'other' person need to be involved with the steel work?
The guy involved so far is a civil engineer and quote includes all structural calculations etc. (he's CEng MICE) and he's an older too.
Cheers

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Why have you gone to a civil engineer? As mentioned an architectural technician who will liaise with a structural engineer on your behalf and integrate all the structural stuff into their own drawings. Yes Building Control should pick up anything vital that maybe missing from the drawings.

That said there are surveyors, structural engineers, civils, architects, plan drawers, anyone who are capable, just ensure whoever you choose does the whole package so not just the structural stuff or some pretty layouts.

 

[mickyboy06]

Thanks again Freddymercurystwin,
I haven't specificly gone to anyone, just responded to the only two adverts in local paper under 'Plans Drawn' section
One of them is BSc C Eng MICE, the other is Dipl.Arch RIBA
I will be persueing enquiries with few people as well as a handful of quotes from builders too when it gets to that stage. I will probably knock on the doors of some local neighbours who have had lofts done....I have nothing to lose by trying, they can either say "yes we used ......." or "p155 off stranger"
This site is also proving to be a needed part of my enquiries.
I like to deal with good local trades, I have good business/reputation with a few tradesmen in town and like word of mouth trade as it tends not to lie.
overall I guess the proof is in the pudding, I won't be fooled into something that looks like an Ikea kitchen plan and will be expecting some very thorough drawings, after all I want to be taken seriously and don't want comeback in the future.

 

[OvertonPlumber]

I have experience of a loft conversion company whose drawings look like the back of a fag packet all handdone. None of the loft conversions have any element of planning. They use an external agency for there building regulations compliance and certification which costs them £800 per job. Cheaper than the circa £1100 through building control. One interesting thing they did was build a dorma next to a existing soil/vent termination and a openable window. But apparently it all complies as someone certified its as compliant. What a joke building regs compliance is.

 

[cjard]

What a joke building regs compliance is.

A joke can be made of anything if the relevant person wants to stick their neck out and sign on the dotted line. It doesn't affect the intent of the legislation, only a specific implementation of it

 

[cjard]

Thanks again Freddymercurystwin,
I haven't specificly gone to anyone, just responded to the only two adverts in local paper under 'Plans Drawn' section

If the whole thing ends up a screwup, you'll be quite glad of those plans - you see, plans are either right or wrong. If they're wrong but the builder built them by the time you discover a mistake, then the architect is liable. If they're right and the builder built them wrongly by the time you discover a mistake, then the builder is liable*. If they're anything and the builder hasn't built them by the time you discover a mistake, then you have saved yourself a load of grief. If they're nothing and anything is built then there's no comeback whatsoever and you're wearing all the mistakes

In terms of your "it's just a few lines on a bit of paper, I ain't paying 2 grand for that" approach - that might need some adjustment. Just because you don't understand a process doesn't mean there is no value in it. If you saw what making a pint of beer entailed, I doubt you'd pay £3.50 for it but you still do.

You are, of course, free to draw your own plans but then you assume a lot of responsibility that you normally pay someone else to take. If anything your time on this planet, working for various bosses(or having people work for you) should have taught you by now it's that you aren't paid for what you do; you're paid for the responsibility you take


*this scenario has a sadly frequent conclusion where the builder walks off the job with more money than he's earned and any court action is ultimately futile. Avoid it by being watchful and paying once satisfied