What is this?

[Rosy]

We started digging for a base for a new greenhouse.

We came across a bit of wall, followed it round and found some brick steps, out of curiosity then got a skip and cleared the whole lot.

What we have is a 6'x6' square, 3' deep into the ground with brick steps going down into it. It is bricked with cement or something on the inside with a concrete floor.

First thoughts were an air raid shelter, but it is too small, any ideas?

 

[oilman]

A picture might help. What was on the land before your house? It might be a boiler room for an old greenhouse, but it could be many things.

 

[Rosy]

Will arrange a photo.

The house was built in 1932, prior to this it was arable land.

 

[stephenf8542]

A porthole to middle earth?

 

[JohnD]

6 ft sq could still be an air raid shelter. An Anderson shelter was my first thought, though they didn't usually have brickwork bases.

"They were made from six corrugated iron sheets bolted together at the top, with steel plates at either end, and measured 6ft 6in by 4ft 6in (1.95m by 1.35m). "

http://www.learningcurve.gov.uk/homefront/bombing/shelters/source3l.htm

 

[Rosy]

Some photos

View media item 13084
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View media item 13087

 

[JohnD]

has that far wall been whitewashed? Any sign of fittings on the walls? Bunks, lamp, boiler fittings?

Marks from a pile of coal? (I ask because an old house I used to live in formerly had a large greenhouse, with a boiler under ground at one end, heating with 6" iron pipes under the staging)

could the walls previously have been higher (look at the top course)?

is there any sign it might once have held water (doesn't look like it from the pics)?

 

[Rosy]

No there is nothing, no pipes, holes, nothing only an old rusty bar fitted in the bricks at the far end. There is some faded black at the top of the render so it might have been tanked at some time. Apart from what we took out which mainly consisted of old rusty iron bits like wheels, oil drums, handlebars, an old broken up iron bedstead, loads of old electrical bits and bobs, rubble and earth of course, it is perfectly clean.

It looks like there were more courses of bricks but we found it at this level under the lawn.

My only other possibility at the moment is maybe a "root cellar" but I thought they only had these in really cold climates.

 

[JohnD]

can you show us a pic of the rusty bar?

if it is the grounds of a big house, it might possibly have been an ice cellar. It woulf probably have a floor drain for the ice water. It does not look big enough to have been the cellar of a house, and too well-built to be the cellar of a tiny cottage.

see if you can measure the exact size of a brick, and if they are set in cement or soft lime mortar. sometimes you can guage the age of a brick by any markings or name on the top, or crinkles at the corners or edges if it is hand made.

The age of houses nearby might give some clues, especially if they are built in the same bricks. Also how far it is from the nearest house (you would have had to run out to a shelter in the middle of the night, but wanted it far enough away that the house would not fall onto it)

I still like the idea of an air-raid shelter. It would be about the size for a small family. You could probably have fitted bunks at one end, though there would be holes where a lamp would have been fitted, and holes from a handrail on the steps.

p.s. it isn't in a churchyard, is it?

 

[Rosy]

Photo no. 3 enlarged shows the iron bar.

Brick size is 8 3/4" x 4 1/8", they are big bricks.

The chap that built this house bought a whole arable field in an auction in 1927, built this house first as his own then built around the field and rented the houses out. Bit of a well off gypsy.

Jeeps, I hope his wife is'nt buried under the floor of this thing, or maybe its where he kept his money.

 

[JohnD]

I can't see the bar well. Can you do a close-up? It isn't a pipe, is it?

might have been for hanging something on.

If he built the house in 1927, and had more building work done, he probably had the money and the contacts to have a private air-raid shelter built for himself in 1939. I reckon that's it. After the war it would have been unwanted and presumably had the superstructure demolished.

 

[Rosy]

The odd thing about it being an air raid shelter is that there is a slope in the garden about 4ft from the side wall of this thing. He could have used the slope to build an air raid shelter by just cutting some of it out.

The inside measurement is 51" x 56" exclusive of the steps. The iron bar is an upsidedown T shape. There is no handrail fixing marks.

 

[JohnD]

The inside measurement is 51" x 56" exclusive of the steps.

mmm, bit too small to lie down in. Might have been a warden's post but I'm stumped.

 

[ColJack]

what's it's position relative to the road or open fields ( might not be that now.. )

 

[Rosy]

Its roughly 90ft back from the road and roughly 30ft back from our house, or 40-50ft from the original house (before extensions). The road has been in position for a good few hundred years.

It is a bricks width from our old block wall to the right of our property, so if we were to build up the back wall of it, it would basically be against the old wall, mind you it would only need to be 3-4ft above ground.

Unfortunately it is now behind the greenhouse, we had to bring the greenhouse forward 4ft from where I wanted it because we were worried a concrete base might sink, just as well we did.