What's my lintel ?

[dal5band]

Had a quote for a new patio door today - the original was installed in around 1975 when the double storey extension was built. The saleman said the bricks above the patio door had a crack and he said there may not be a lintel in the outer brickwork.
Surely in 1975 the building regs would require a full width lintel ?
How can I check what lintel is in there ? There is no concrete strip visible on the outside so I suspect it is some sort of steel lintel. The span is 2.8m.
Any ideas ?

 

[stuart45]

I've worked on houses in the 70's with a 6 inch concrete lintel inside and the brickwork outside resting on the timber frames. You were supposed to put in brick tor for 3 courses, but not every trowel did.

 

[theoldun]

45 is right. If the price was tight, I am ahamed to say that a lot of the lads could not have the hassle of 3 course of Tor over frames, even though in those days 3 course of Tor was reckoned to be as good as lintel.
Neatly stitch drill a brick out to find out tor sure.
old un,

 

[dal5band]

thanks for that "happy" info - You could well be right because judging by the age of the door (6mm gap in dg), it was put in as the extension was built.
I've ordered the new door and they will put in an angle iron at extra cost if they find there is no support on the outer bricks. Persumably there must be a way of doing it because they keep the angle irons in stock !!

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

By angle iron you do mean a steel RSJ?
To install this you will need to remove some of the course work, leave at least 150mm either side of the opening for the RSJ to sit and the use of acro props to support the structure while this is being carried out, installation of structural lintels need to be calculated by someone like a structural engineer and approved by building controls.

 

[noseall]

.....brick tor plus tie wires set into the in-situ concrete.

Bu££er to replace and heavy.

 

[dal5band]

No not a whole RSJ - there is definately a lintel there already - would have fallen down by now otherwise !!
As stated above, the fix is to put an angle iron lintel just under the outer leaf before removing the old frame - not sure how they do it. I am sure they will support it etc.

 

[noseall]

not sure how they do it. I am sure they will support it etc.

 

[dal5band]

OK here are some pictures. Although there is some crcking, it's been like that for 20 years since we have been here. There is some DPC showing just on the top left corner.
Click picture to enlarge

PatDoorAA

• dal5band
• 8 May 2010
• 1

Notice row of small bricks just above frame

PatdoorBB

• dal5band
• 8 May 2010
• 1

PatDorrCC

• dal5band
• 8 May 2010
• 1

Close up shows there is some DPC- up to the left

PS have cancelled the new door until this is sorted out !!!![/img]

 

[stuart45]

It looks a straightforward job to support the wall just above the brick on edge with strongboys and take away the BOE and insert the iron.
[GALLERY=media, 21092][/GALLERY]
It looks like an 18 inch Hyload tray has been used, although ideally it should go directly on top of the frame as there could be some water penetration through the crack in the bed joint between the BOE and the course above.

 

[dal5band]

Hi all, this is my old thread but the job is still pending !!! Last week (1/6/2016!!) took the external architrave off the frame and saw the front edge of a steel. It is the front edge of a 1/4" thick galavenised plate, persumably the front edge of some sort of lintel. We measured the height at the sides and middle and there is no drop. That was the good news.
However, the visible edge of the steel plate is the same width as the frame and the edge on bricks course - it does not extend into the side brickwork. The bottob of the EOB course is not level with the side course - it 1/2 way up a course.
So the question is what kind of lintel is it ?

 

[noseall]

Steel angle? 100mm x 100mm probably.

 

[Footsoldier888]

At my previous 1960's house the survey questioned the adequacy of the concrete lintels. The guy said that after the original wooden frames were replaced with pvc the original lintel might not be strong enough and he thought the walls were being forced out very slightly. This was all over the house and it had room length windows on the front elevation!

We never got the work done and it passed survey when we sold so perhaps the surveyor was being overly cautious. However I did read that replacing original timber frames with pvc in the 1970's/80's did lead to problems.

Is it possible the OP's lintel could be adequate for timber frame but not pvc???

 

[dal5band]

Well !!! after over ten years we've finally had the job done. There was a steel angle above the old patio door frame but is was only resting on the wooden frame. So the installers supported the brickwork, took out the half bricks above the frame andtook out the old steel. They have now installed a new heavy steel angle spanning well into the bricks at each side and put in a straight course of bricks. The acrows will be taken out when the morter has cured and the new door is on site ready to be installed.

Original Poster

PATDOOR4

• dal5band
• 31 Aug 2016

New Steel

PATDOOR5

• dal5band
• 31 Aug 2016

Strong Boy holding brickwork

PATDOOR6

• dal5band
• 31 Aug 2016

Course of bricks on new steel, ready to change doors

 

[garyo]

Best thread resurrection ever!