When is a bedroom not a bedroom?

[JP_]

I am looking at a house and can see from the local planning website that it was originally designed and built as a 4 bedroom house, but before building was completed, the loft was converted and it was then called a 6 bedroom house before being sold in 2007. From a look, it seems that the loft rooms only have small, centre hinged windows, and I am sure that they do not meet the 2002 building regs requirement of a 45cm opening (if hinge was top, maybe OK).

If they are not big enough, does this mean that the house should really be called a 4 bedroom house? I also saw on the planning site that retrospective planning permission was requested for the windows (with objections from neighbours) and approved. The windows are 1500mm from the floor, so might just be within the 1700mm from eaves requirement (although, now I've done the math, probably not!).

For the moment I'm not making any offers, and don't really want to go down the route of having an offer accepted and then the surveyer saying "those ain't bedrooms, they're just fancy loft storage rooms" and the mortgage company saying "no" and it all falling apart ....

 

[noseall]

I'm thinking of asking for £20 grand back from the vendors because our box room is only big enough for a small bed.

 

[Doggit]

If it was sold back in 2007, wouldn't any issues have cropped up then, and if planning permission was granted, there shouldn't be an issue there either. Best to discuss your concerns with the owner, and see what response you get. You can always make an offer subject to survey, and then renegotiate if things don't come up to expectations.

 

[JP_]

Well, planning was only for the small windows, not for bedrooms. No public details of building regulation approval for the work done.

Might take that route though, will be interesting to see what a survey comes up with. But, the surveyor I am using is a no sale no fee one via the estate agent, so maybe they will overlook it!

 

[^woody^]

Does this mean that any house built before 1950 does not have any bedrooms?

 

[Doggit]

As long as they are a bona fide structural surveyor (check their credentials) then they should okay; what you don't want is a valuer. Make sure that you're concerns are put in writing, and any replies are on paper as well. What does the local council rate the house as.

 

[JP_]

Council rate is F

 

[JP_]

Woody, if the 1950s houses were built after the 2002 building regulations, then yes, I guess so!

 

[Doggit]

Band F says nothing I'm afraid, you'd need to talk to the local rating office, and get them to check their notes.

 

[tony1851]

The loft would not have needed planning permission, so the vendors can call the rooms whatever they want.

 

[wessex101]

The loft would not have needed planning permission, so the vendors can call the rooms whatever they want.

I don't think it works like that. If you get planning permission to build a 4 bed house you are required to follow the approved plans. You can't just add permitted development additions during the build as the whim takes you. Otherwise everyone would add a loft conversion, huge rear dormer, 2 storey rear extension, side extension, porch etc. etc. At best it would have been a material amendment to the original application.

From the brief description it certainly sounds like the windows will not comply with fire egress provisions so possibly the loft conversion does not have Building Regs approval either. It all sounds rather dodgy to me.

 

[Doggit]

Having been in this situation, I know it's possible to do it, and get away with it as well. As the loft "conversion" doesn't need planning permission (which is why the windows needed retrospective planing aproval afterwards) the BCO can agree to the loft being brought up to habitable spec as part of the build, and it was the BCO that told me how to do it.

It is more than possible that the BCO was given the impression that it would be just loft rooms, or glorified storage, so the OP is more than justified in suspecting a scam.

 

[^woody^]

Loft conversion windows on the second floor or above are not a means of escape.

 

[^woody^]

Woody, if the 1950s houses were built after the 2002 building regulations, then yes, I guess so!

Your premise is that windows need to be of a certain type for a room to be a bedroom, but they do not. The time of construction is irrelevant.

 

[wessex101]

Loft conversion windows on the second floor or above are not a means of escape.

Oh yeah. Silly me, bit of a brain fart moment, oops.