Where is our boundary?

[andyste]

Not sure if this is the right forum but here goes.

We have one of those vertical log edge retaining walls between us and the neighbours, put in by the builders when the estate was built in 2000. The ground on our side is around 18 inches higher than theirs. There is also a fence on our side of this log wall, put in by the neighbour before we moved in, with approx a 1" gap between the concrete posts and the back of the logs.

The neighbour has just embarked on a project to remove both the log edging (due to it rotting) and the fencing, and replacing it with a brick wall. He's told us that the fence, rather the log edging, is the official boundary. Sounds like BS to me?

We don't want the wall encroaching onto our side any more than it already is, as our path is already on the narrow side (34"). In theory a double-brick thick wall should take up the same amount of space as the fence and log edging, but we're still peeved about the work. He's using antique bricks and buff coping, totally out of character on a modern estate, and b***dy great stone pillar caps, which will be at head height on our side.

 

[charliegolf]

Two aspects: where's the line; and what can he put up. For the boundary, get the plans as lodged with the Land Registry (I believe you can download for a small fee) and establish where it is. Use a surveyor if it's that important to you. As to the wall, I'm not sure you can do anything about that, unless it exceeds the height where planning permission comes into play. If the fence does turn out to be the boundary ensure that not a cm is encroached your side of it.

How is the boundary delineated on the other side?

CG

 

[bernardgreen]

Check your deeds to see if there are any restrictive covenants that were imposed on the properties.

General information about restrictive covenants can be found HERE

There may be restrictions on the type and/or height of retaining walls between your and your neighbours properties.

 

[Diver Fred]

What does the deeds say/indentify about boundaries. Do the deed plans give measurements?
I would have thought the Log retaining Wall would be on the boundary not the fence if it was installed by the builders. Is there proof that the neighbour put the retaining wall in?

 

[andyste]

I'll have to dig out the deeds to see what they say. I don't remember anything about side boundaries - I think it was things like not being allowed to plant trees, no fences or walls around front gardens, etc.

I think the neighbour was trying his luck by telling us the fence was the boundary. My wife had a bit of a whinge this morning and pointed out how narrow our path is compared to theirs. He's going to take the wall back by a brick width so (in theory) we should actually gain a few inches. Still not happy about the style of wall going up, but each to his own, and it's down the side of the house so we won't see much of it.

What does the deeds say/indentify about boundaries. Do the deed plans give measurements?
I would have thought the Log retaining Wall would be on the boundary not the fence if it was installed by the builders. Is there proof that the neighbour put the retaining wall in?

No written proof but the neighbour has verbally told us that he installed the fence, and that the log wall was done by Redrow.

 

[JP_]

I'd say it would be logical to assume that if the log wall was put in first, that is the boundary. The fact they put the fence on your side is irrelevant - they should not have done that in the first place. Also, if stepped down, it makes sense that the boundary fence or wall is on the lower side, as it will not be very stable. So, that wall needs to move... ?

 

[Diver Fred]

No written proof but the neighbour has verbally told us that he installed the fence, and that the log wall was done by Redrow.

there's your answer - centre line of retaining wall without other proof. But without clarity on deeds both properties could be jointly responsible.
Guess he put the fence up cause the previous owners of property didn't want to spend the money... Leaving later owners with problem.

 

[^woody^]

A boundary is an imaginary line of no defined thickness, so even when marked on deed pans, it can often be difficult to pinpoint unless there are text notes or measurements - which there are almost always none. The boundary line tends not to be down the middle of any fence or wall or other thing along the boundary.

So typically you would look for indicators of the most likely or intended position - half way between properties, 90° off walls etc. If there are inverted T marks to denote who is responsible for "maintaining the boundary" then that could be a guide to where the boundary is intended to be - typically if you are responsible for the boundary then you will normally own the structure or hedge on the boundary and the boundary line will be on the far side of the structure or hedge.

So in this case, forgetting the retrospective fence and relying on the timber retaining wall, then whoever is responsible for that will have the boundary on the far side of it.

 

[andyste]

I'd say it would be logical to assume that if the log wall was put in first, that is the boundary. The fact they put the fence on your side is irrelevant - they should not have done that in the first place. Also, if stepped down, it makes sense that the boundary fence or wall is on the lower side, as it will not be very stable. So, that wall needs to move... ?

He's putting the wall along the (approx) 9" strip of land currently occupied by both the log wall and the fence, and will be built from his ground level not ours. Once he has removed the log wall he'll obviously also need to remove several inches from our raised ground where the fence currently runs.

Our paved path runs right up to the fence posts so I just hope he doesn't cause any collapses when removing the fence posts, or when excavating sideways for the new wall footings.

A picture paints a thousand words so to clear up any confusion here is a drawing of what it looks like from the front of the house:

 

[bernardgreen]

This looks like a Right of Support notice to your neighbour is required

quoting from boundary problems

"" The right of support can also apply to ground (as distinct from a building) that is in danger of collapse as a result of excavation on neighbouring land.Thus a right of support also exists in the case of retaining walls that coincide with a property boundary. ""

 

[Diver Fred]

Have you thought to contact the building company? They may have records and be able to help.

another thought is that the path should be a minimum of 36inches wide. So if the fence is the neighbours erection he is land grabbing.

 

[Notch7]

He's putting the wall along the (approx) 9" strip of land currently occupied by both the log wall and the fence, and will be built from his ground level not ours. Once he has removed the log wall he'll obviously also need to remove several inches from our raised ground where the fence currently runs.

Our paved path runs right up to the fence posts so I just hope he doesn't cause any collapses when removing the fence posts, or when excavating sideways for the new wall footings.

A picture paints a thousand words so to clear up any confusion here is a drawing of what it looks like from the front of the house:

I wouldve thought where the wall should be where the logs are -any extra thickness of the wall should go his side.

Thats assuming he is cresting a boundary wall. If he wants a party fence, which would be astride the boundary, he needs an agreement with you.