where to start?! (Renovation and conversion of old ex-agricultural Alpine building)

[Spinal]

So I've taken on a large new project - a 400 year old "house" in the Alps.

The roof was redone 10-ish years ago (corrugate), and is in good condition... but uninsulated. Other than that, it's still pretty "original" (i.e. last inhabited full time ~100 years ago).

Heating is a single wood-fired stove in the lowest floor.
Electricity is on premise - but served by decades old cables run on the surface of the walls.
Water is only to one room (the kitchen)
There are no indoor toilets, and it's not connected to sewage (about 10m away luckily).

So my thoughts are:
1. Get sewage connected, while doing some planning in a random CAD tool to figure out what to do with the various rooms (there's a sheep stable, a chapel and a hay area... almost perfect for christmas!) (also maybe fit a temporary toilet, so there's a toilet that isn't "that bush in the neighbors field" while working on the property)
2. Cut the walls to lay pipes for electricity and water (rough in)
3. Install new wall partitions in the hay barn
4. Underfloor heating (if possible), if not - lay in pipework for radiators
5. Get permission to replace part of the wooden apex with glass windows + at the same time get permission to open a new door and enlarge existing windows
6. Insulate the roof (walls are 160cm thick, not sure I need to insulate those )
7. The rest

Any ideas on my prioritization?

 

[JohnD]

Do you speak the language of the country where it is situated?

If not, first step, start learning.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

@mointainwalker did something similar I believe.

 

[Spinal]

Do you speak the language of the country where it is situated?

If not, first step, start learning.

Yups - fortunate enough to speak both the local languages. I spent my summers in that village as a child, and getting the property from someone I used to play with as a 5-year old... It was her great-grandma's property; but uninhabited since WW1.

The interesting thing is, that the property (on paper at least) is all rated as inhabitable space. The stable, the hay-floor over, etc... So from a permission perspective, should be a bit easier.

The only real headache I can see in advance is the windows, as that area is protected by a "look and feel" regulation, so the windows need to be done in keeping with the style of the building.

 

[JohnD]

You will need water, electricity and sanitary facilities while you are working.

If you have any sense you will mostly do it in summer so heating and insulation are not yet urgent.

You will need secure storage for your tools, preferably out of sight and inaccessible in a loft area, with the ladder taken away or chained up and hidden.

 

[Spinal]

You will need water, electricity and sanitary facilities while you are working.

If you have any sense you will mostly do it in summer so heating and insulation are not yet urgent.

You will need secure storage for your tools, preferably out of sight and inaccessible in a loft area, with the ladder taken away or chained up and hidden.

No sense whatsoever here - if I had any sense, I wouldn't have bought the property Or at least, planned to hire someone to do the work.

Tool storage is a good point, sadly the loft is easily accessible (it's on a steep slope - so the loft, or 3rd floor from the downvalley side, is on the road/ground floor on the rear). That said, the cellar would be relatively secure if I change the door with a steel one... and relatively easy to do in a day without having people complain about the look & feel of the building.

My idea was to head down and work remotely for a week or so every month or two, and get a few things sorted each time. Insulation I'm not prioritizing right away, as the older part of the building (i.e. the cellar, chapel and living room) have walls so thick that even in the middle of winter its ~14c. I wasn't kidding about the 160cm walls - even the interior walls are that thick.

I reckon that I can light the wood stove and get those 3-4 rooms warm enough without worries... but my concern is putting a bathroom - that would be outside those rooms, in what is now still a stable... and there it gets cold. So I need a bathroom that I can drain all the pipes when leaving... or put an electric radiator and leave that at 7c or so....

 

[JohnD]

See if you are allowed solar panels. You could run night storage heaters at low cost, but charge them in the day. Alpine heights have very strong sunlight when not cloudy.

 

[noseall]

6. Insulate the roof (walls are 160cm thick, not sure I need to insulate those )

Latest B'regs external masonry walls in the UK are 150mm thick and fully insulated. I'd deffo insulate. The more the merrier.

 

[Spinal]

Latest B'regs external masonry walls in the UK are 150mm thick and fully insulated. I'd deffo insulate. The more the merrier.

160 cm That wasn't a typo. 1600mm thick walls (of stone and lime mortar).

So much so, that cutting the windows larger will be fun. I think I'll start with a concrete cutting disk on one side (acrows of course first), then continue with an impact chisel... fit 2-3 lintels, mortar... and then repeat on the other side...

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Do they have Building Regs in the Alps?
Are there not minimum requirements for renovation?
What about Planning Permission or whatever the equivalent is?

 

[noseall]

160 cm That wasn't a typo.

 

[Odds]

Martijn Doolaard has released 83 videos documenting his restoration of an Alpine cabin.
Check out his Youtube Channel.

Two Stone Cabins

 

[Spinal]

Do they have Building Regs in the Alps?
Are there not minimum requirements for renovation?
What about Planning Permission or whatever the equivalent is?

There are - but there are things you can do without any permission/planning requirements. Making windows bigger will need planning permission. Adding a bathroom will need planning permission, but ironically, the stables was mis-categorized as a "house with bathroom" until now, so that should be easier.

Building requirements, yes - but it's more around the outside. I.e. I cannot put a brutalist concrete & glass monstrosity. It need to look like the other houses in the area (i.e. stone walls, slate roof, etc - which is funny, as the corrugate roof is not compliant - but unless I tough it, it's allowed to stay)

 

[Roy Bloom]

The interesting thing is, that the property (on paper at least) is all rated as inhabitable space. The stable, the hay-floor over, etc... So from a permission perspective, should be a bit easier.

If it's in France, check with the Maire that it will be allowed to renovate for habitation.
Permission is not required to turn a habitable space for agricultiural use. But a permit is then required to renovate and return it back to habitation.
If the Maire is onside, that's half the battle. But the renovation might come under the jurisdiction of the planning for the larger area. Your local Maire might be able to argue your case, but he/she can't overule the higher-up planner's decision.

If you're just repairing like for like, you don't need a permit, but that does not allow you to inhabit the space. Only a proper permit will allow that.

Over 120m² interior habitable space must be planned by an architect. Under eaves of about 1.8 m is exempt form that interior calculation.
If you are applying for a permit for habitation, there's a tax to pay, but it's in two installements. When you start, and about two years after completion.

Then there's a recent (last few years) record of old buidlings for potential future conversion. if your building wasn't identified at the time, for potential future conversion, it may not be allowed anyway.

Your walls will act as a heat sink, but you'll notice it more in the winter when you have to heat them up. Especially if you arrive for weekends or even weeks. It could easily take a week to heat up the space due to those heat sinks.

 

[Spinal]

If it's in France, check with the Maire that it will be allowed to renovate for habitation.
Permission is not required to turn a habitable space for agricultiural use. But a permit is then required to renovate and return it back to habitation.
If the Maire is onside, that's half the battle. But the renovation might come under the jurisdiction of the planning for the larger area. Your local Maire might be able to argue your case, but he/she can't overule the higher-up planner's decision.

If you're just repairing like for like, you don't need a permit, but that does not allow you to inhabit the space. Only a proper permit will allow that.

Over 120m² interior habitable space must be planned by an architect. Under eaves of about 1.8 m is exempt form that interior calculation.
If you are applying for a permit for habitation, there's a tax to pay, but it's in two installements. When you start, and about two years after completion.

Then there's a recent (last few years) record of old buidlings for potential future conversion. if your building wasn't identified at the time, for potential future conversion, it may not be allowed anyway.

Your walls will act as a heat sink, but you'll notice it more in the winter when you have to heat them up. Especially if you arrive for weekends or even weeks. It could easily take a week to heat up the space due to those heat sinks.

It's on the Italian side (but literally a few minutes walk from France)... actually from what I can tell, not that far from Martijn Doolaard!