Which cylinder - standard or ACV?

No space for 2 boilers but room for 3 cylinders totalling 1100 litres.

To me your mind is made up, you have the chance of running 120lpm if all showers are used.( that's quite small for a rainhead)
80/40 so 5 or 6 mins of showering then a full recovery.

There is space for two boilers (but that isn't an issue) 1 or two I don't mind but would prefer one. There is no room for a second HW cylinder as there are 2 accumulator stores also i.e. there is no room for a 4th water store.

What does your 80/40 refer to?
 
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bobby62";p="2590141 said:
No space for 2 boilers but room for 3 cylinders totalling 1100 litres.

You seem to be questioning the fact that I am proposing 2 x accumulator stores also. For a house of this ize surley you would propose something similar, or at the very least a CW storage tank and pump set.... your reference to '1100 litres therefore does not make sense. What would you do in this situation - rely on the 25mm MCW :eek:
 
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Ok, now the tit for that is over, IMO even though manufacturers make high volume/high recovery cylinders be it tank in tank or indirect coil, the reheat of these is going to be extremely large in relation to heat input.

If your only going to shower at set periods and they'll only be used once then the length of reheat isn't that important but it should still be done within 1hour.

Hot water priority is a realistic solution in a domestic sense other wise you well could be adding another 20/30kw to your boiler size if the hot water and heating run together with a fully depleted store.

I'd seriously have a look at rinnai with a buffer before leaping in with any cylinder, trouble with any gas fired heater is the gas supply, if your on a domestic u6, your very likely to have no chance in hell, unless you adopt something like the rinnai twinflow and use a flow switch on the water heater to disable any other gas fired appliance.

Accumalators IMO are crap, you need double the size for useable volume ie 300litre ACC will give 150litres of improvement as a rough guide.
It probably won't help you achieve 80lpm (4 showers hot and cold).
That's where my 1100litres came in 500cylinder plus 600ish ACC. Would probably need more than that if you like a good long shower.
Yes ACC are quiet and have no electrical/mechanical parts...until recently lots of cylinder manufacturers wouldn't allow one to be used with there cylinders, GAH had some patent crap going on.

Pump sets will do your job without having to even think, down side is obviously a water store and that its a pump which aren't the quietest of things and can/and do breakdown.
 
Ok, now the tit for that is over, IMO even though manufacturers make high volume/high recovery cylinders be it tank in tank or indirect coil, the reheat of these is going to be extremely large in relation to heat input.

If your only going to shower at set periods and they'll only be used once then the length of reheat isn't that important but it should still be done within 1hour.

Hot water priority is a realistic solution in a domestic sense other wise you well could be adding another 20/30kw to your boiler size if the hot water and heating run together with a fully depleted store.

I'd seriously have a look at rinnai with a buffer before leaping in with any cylinder, trouble with any gas fired heater is the gas supply, if your on a domestic u6, your very likely to have no chance in hell, unless you adopt something like the rinnai twinflow and use a flow switch on the water heater to disable any other gas fired appliance.

Accumalators IMO are crap, you need double the size for useable volume ie 300litre ACC will give 150litres of improvement as a rough guide.
It probably won't help you achieve 80lpm (4 showers hot and cold).
That's where my 1100litres came in 500cylinder plus 600ish ACC. Would probably need more than that if you like a good long shower.
Yes ACC are quiet and have no electrical/mechanical parts...until recently lots of cylinder manufacturers wouldn't allow one to be used with there cylinders, GAH had some patent crap going on.

Pump sets will do your job without having to even think, down side is obviously a water store and that its a pump which aren't the quietest of things and can/and do breakdown.


Some useful info here Lee thanks, I have seen the Andrews and Rinnai units before, they look good and are obviously a very feasible solution when fast HW recovery is needed. I just feel this is somewhere between a large (ish) house and a 'mansion' i.e. I think the system will lend itself better to a 4-500 litre hot water cylinder on hot water priority. You make a valid point regarding gas loads, we are in fact increasing the meter to a U16 to cater for a second boiler serving the pool so there would actually be capacity for a gas water heater.

Hot water priority is the way to go, is that easy to achieve with multiple heating zones? there will be 3 x heating zones and a hot water zone.

Yes, I am aware of the situation with GAH and their Dualstream product (not allowing it to be used on other cylinders etc.etc.) I'm not sure if this is still in force. I know a good system by TWS (Trentclyde Water Solutions) - they also manufacture a charger unit which will provide faster recharge to the ACC stores. The issue with pump sets is the noise, the plant area is below a bedroom and I know from experience, unless you have an outbuilding or garage, well away from occupied rooms then you can run the risk of hearing the pump set kick in and out... not good if your trying to get to sleep.
 
Hot water priority is just how the valves are wired, effectively you closing the heating zones as the hot water zone opens to ensure all heat is sent to the cylinder. This way the boiler can be reduced in output to match the biggest demand, that being either all 3 heating zones or the hot water zone.

This is where sizing is important as hit water priority closes the heating you need your cylind back up to temp quickly, you don't notice the heating being off for 5/10 mins but an hour and you've gone cold.

It's quite a juggle, do you have your cyl too big so that you never draw off all the water reducing reheat time, but wasting some energy or sized so it's just enough but needs reheating to full every time.

Personally this is where I think that the gas fired heater solution is better as you don't affect the heating during DHW performance/reheat. Suits bigger buildings or mansions so much better.
 
It is important to evaluate the central heating load fairly accurately. This is usually the greatest load, and with a water priority system as used elsewhere for decades, you don't need to add in the hot water load.
 
I regularly install viessmann 200s and Vaillants they are all fine...

really its the installer that makes a boiler reliable not the manufacturer!

Almost certainly the selection of controls and the degree of system integration has a great deal to do with reliability and longevity...

as for hot water... anything made and installed as they do in Germany or Holland is the way to go...
 
Oh dear LeeC is going to be sooooo shamed when MM puts up pictures of his installs :LOL:

Would I rather trust someone that fits the best available solution for a problem or someone that's tied to one manufacturer?

Decisions, decisions :rolleyes:

Still at least we know where the fannyflap went out of the earlier Viessmanns ;)
 
Well it is pretty much universally agreed amongst the professionals here that MM is Viessmann's worst enemy on here.

If his paymasters are watching, get him on a short leash sharpish.

Some of us are not anti-Viessmann, but we are certainly getting bored with this chaps random chipping in with biased advise.

Perhaps a Gas Safe registered member of staff would have the Cajones to register with the CC and contribute to the professional side of the forum?
 

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