Which Makita combi and impact? Plus bits q

[stealthwolf]

Needed for general DIY around the house eg handing pictures, curtain rails, fences. Need to drill into concrete and brick for some of the above. I've been looking a lot online and FFX seem to do at least seven kits with different combi drills and impact drivers.

It looks like there's the lower power range of DHP459, DHP456, DHP480 and DHP 482, and the more powerful DHP458 and DHP481. I like the idea of a side handle to support when drilling but only the 458 and 481 come with them because of the torque.

The impact drivers along with these combis (DTD146, DTD152 and DTD129) all seem similar in terms of torque, load speed and impacts per min. So it boils down to which combi drill.

I plan to buy a separate cordless SDS drill (and there seems to be even more different SDS drills than combis) in the future.

Looking to spend around the £300 mark which looks like I'd easily get a kit with a pair 4Ah batteries. Which should I go for? Or do I just go for the most powerful?

I've looked at getting Wera Impaktor bits for the impact driver, but are there a recommended brand for the drill?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Makita combi drills:

DHP453 - brushed motor, bargain basement DIY model. A bit gutless, also fairly large. Not long-lived if much masonry drilling is contemplated, but OK for less hectic DIY use (and a lot better than a DIY B&D IMHO)
DHP456 - brushed motor, updated version of the BHP452 trade combi drill. Reasonable power and weight as a drill. Not really suitable for heavy masonry, but OK in soft brick, blockwork, etc. I have one of these for use at home on DIY work. It replaced a BHP452
DHP458 - brushed motor. Trade rated. Heavy duty combi drill built for continuous drilling into masonry. Improved replacement for the BHP481 combi with a 2-speed gearbox replacing the sometimes 3-speed gearbox of the earlier drill. Really heavy.
DHP459 - brushed motor. Trade rated. A bit heavier duty than the DHP456 with more torque. A colleague who has
one says that it is a step-up from the DHP456 but that (for trade use) he should have gone with the DHP480
DHP480 - brushless motor. heavy duty. Heavier still than a DHP459. Powerful enough to run reasonably large auger bits. Inbuilt battery state indicator. Comes with a side handle
DHP481 - brushless motor, extremely heavy duty and high torque, so it comes with a really long side handle. It needs it! Brushless equivalent of the DHP458. I bought one for use with heavy auger drilling and large hole saws and it is a really tough beast. Large and heavy, though, so not really a tool for all the time use IMHO (but maybe I'm a wimp) Inbuilt battery state indicator.
I haven't yet seen a DHP482, so I can't comment on it, although they look like they might be a replacement for the DHP456

If you have an SDS to drill masonry you don't really nead a combi with hammer action. Makita do a number of these in drill/driver versions, e.g. DFD459 and DFD480. Less complexity might mean longer life.

Makita impact drivers:

DTD146 - brushless 4-pole motor, single speed impact driver. Inbuilt battery state indicator. This originally had a sister tool, the DTD145/BTD145 which featured 3-speeds as opposed to one (I still use a BTD145 - now 5 years old in trade use). Plastic nose with rubber nose ring which can be a little fragile in hostile environments. Fairly old design
DTD152 - brushless 4-pole motor, single speed impact driver. Inbuilt battery state indicator. Updated and slightly smaller version of the DTD146. Plastic nose with rubber nose ring which can be a little fragile in hostile environments although better than its' predecessor
DTD129 - brushless 4-pole motor, single speed impact driver. Inbuilt battery state indicator. Heavy duty model, fully trade rated. Has all metal nose which can take work in harsh environments. I have 3 colleagues with these impacts and they seem pretty bulletproof.

Brushless motors always seem to deliver more power than the equivalent brushed models and the battery life is generally 40% or so greater

If you are doing first fix a lot then Wera Diamant really are the best - make sure you use them with the appropriate Wera bit holders. For more general use the Impaktor range hold up well I find Milwaukee bits cheaper but they tend in my experience to round off and die earler than Wera (but at least they don't shatter unlike, say, deWalt black bits)

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Small correction to the above. For DDF459 and DDF480 read DFD459 and DFD480. There are also DFD456 and DFD481 models available.

 

[stealthwolf]

Makita combi drills

Thanks for that. The most useful bit of info I've come across.

If you have an SDS to drill masonry you don't really nead a combi with hammer action. Makita do a number of these in drill/driver versions, e.g. DFD459 and DFD480. Less complexity might mean longer life.

The plan is buy an SDS drill maybe in the next 12-24 months. Certainly I'm in no hurry. I was hoping for a jack-of-all-trades type combi. I had my eye on the DHP458 but as you've pointed out, it's not brushless. The next one up is the DHP481 and it looks like overkill. I might have to settle for the DHP480.

DTD146 - brushless
DTD152 - brushless
DTD129 - brushless

Only the DTD129 appears to be brushless (as well as DTD147 and 148).

Brushless motors always seem to deliver more power than the equivalent brushed models and the battery life is generally 40% or so greater

Yup leaning towards buying brushless for this reason.

If you are doing first fix a lot then Wera Diamant really are the best

Yup sticking to Wera for the impact driver but any suggestions for combi drill bits?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Brushless - sorry, but a bit of unintended brain fade or auto correct there.......

The DHP458 and the DHP481 are big heavy lumps - I spent today ipaf on a roof building framing sections and could only carry one drill up there due to godawful access so I went with the 481. Bags of power to pilot steel RSJ and fix the framing using TEK screws and enough oomph to drill engineering brick but weighs a ton. Reminds me of why I use it so little

In terms of drill bits I use the same for drills and impact drivers because it reduces stock and makes for less weight to carry about

 

[foxhole]

Have three makita 14.4v cordless drills, but all are out performed by a much older Dewalt 12volt. [all metal chuck]

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Have three makita 14.4v cordless drills, but all are out performed by a much older Dewalt 12volt. [all metal chuck]

Apples and pears? It all depends on which models we are talking about and what criteria out use to define "out perform"

 

[ntb]

I've had the 458 / 146 combination for a few years now and been both impressed and happy with them. They get far less use than my 10.8V driver and impact though. In fact the 458 is probably my least used power tool and usually only gets used for drilling steel or large holes in wood. The 146 gets a bit more use driving coach bolts and PZ3 screws. For everything else I generally use the 10.8's and a 241 SDS. This is trade use (handyman). In other words, I think an 18V combi is a bit pointless for diy these days if you have an SDS and an impact driver.

Edit to add. Brushless has big advantages in power and run time but it also has additional circuitry to convert DC into AC for the brushless motor which equals more to go wrong. Time will tell if this is an issue or not.

 

[stealthwolf]

I think an 18V combi is a bit pointless for diy these days if you have an SDS and an impact driver.

I'd be looking at an SDS for use in the future. At the moment, it's not something I need.

My task list (so far):
- drilling into brick walls to put up large photos and paintings
- drilling into wood to put up curtains
- driving a few screws into a wooden fence
- putting together a shelf (with hand tools) but then driving screws to fix it to the garden shed
- replacing a wooden gate
- fixing a couple of sheets of MDF to a door to cover the hole left by a catflap (until the door gets replaced)
- drilling some holes into the fitted wardrobe to pass through some cables
- fixing a magnetic door stop to a stone wall for the back door
- attach one of those retractable washing lines to external brick wall
- attach a bracket for a hosepipe to external brick wall

I figured a good enough cordless twin kit should allow me to complete the above. I've got other projects in mind that will require power tools and I'd probably keep it all the same brand to keep the same batteries.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I'd be looking at an SDS for use in the future. At the moment, it's not something I need.

In which case the logical thing to do would be to look at the same battery system for your starter kit and the SDS. In Makita terms that really means 14.4 or 18volt Li-Ion, but there are a lot less 14.4 tools available and in any case in the UK they are generally the same price, or even dearer.

The tasks you are considering could be done by a DHP456 or better a DHP459 alone depending on the hardness of the brick and stone - if they are engineering brick or the stone is very hard they'd possibly struggle, but on ordinary London brick, blockwork and sandstone/limestone they'll be fine, if a little slow. From your list I really can't see the need for an impact driver - the sort of tasks you use an impact driver for are where you are driving hundreds of biggish (4.0 to 6.0mm) screws a day such as making-up levelling frames for new flooring, stud walling, etc. Streamline your tool usage by having a Trend Snappy Quick Chuck mounted semi-permanently on the drill (for speedy changes), by holding your bits in a magnetic bit holder and by using 1/4in hex drive pilot drills and/or drill/countersinks. That way you might even be able to afford an SDS as a second tool (and remember you can get masonry chisel bits, scutch comb holders, auger bits, wood chisels, etc in SDS fittings - all useable if you have a rotation-stop SDS)

On the other hand ntb makes a very valid point about the newer generation of 10.8/12 volt Li-Ion tools. I had a colleague who took what I thought at the time a huge gamble almost 3 years ago and bought a Milwaukee 12 volt Li-Ion brushless combi drill and brushless SDS drill to replace his ageing Makita 18 volt kit. He also bought some 4Ah batteries to go with them as opposed to the standard 2Ah batteries. On jobs like battening out walls (2 x 1 softwood on packers onto brick and blockwork) he easily kept up with my 18 volt cordless SDS (the brushed Makita BHR241 at the time), because whilst his drill was slower, the batteries lasted much longer so he spent less time running back and forth to the charger station. These days I have a brushless SDS (DHR242 - really impressive) and some 5Ah batteries so the tables would be easily reversed, but the fact remains that his little kit (physically small and light) really was an eye-opener to me and other chippies on the job

Brushless has big advantages in power and run time but it also has additional circuitry to convert DC into AC for the brushless motor which equals more to go wrong. Time will tell if this is an issue or not.

OK, so how about a BTD145 3-speed brushless impact, built 2011, bought same year, constant trade use? And I do a LOT of screw driving. To date it's needed a new switch (dust got in and it became unreliable), a couple of rubber nose rings and the chuck is now showing signs of wear and so needs oiling regularly to prevent bits sticking. I don't think the circuitry is an issue - it's never missed a beat.

BTW are brushless motors used in cordless tools actually AC? A lot of small brushless motors are DC, e.g. the old floppy disk drive motor and DVD drive motors. In a DC brushless motor an electronic controller replaces the brush/commutator assembly. This solid state circuitry (which is generally pretty reliable) continually switches the power to the windings to keep the motor turning in the same way that a brush/commutator system would. In comparison they are also fully enclosed (unlike brushed motors which generally need cooling air from the outside - that in turn can introduce contaminants like grit) and they don't suffer from commutator or brush wear, both of which can and do kill "high mileage" brushed motors

 

[ntb]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against brushless and I'm not suggesting there is any evidence of early failure. At the back of my mind is the quality of Chinese electronics which can be as good as you get but are often not. I doubt a normal diy-er will ever wear out the brushes in their drill. Failure will come from age or lack of availability of replacement batteries- and electronics, especially capacitors age.

As I understand it, converting to AC is to get the speed control. DC is flipped back and forth at varying frequencies to drive the motor at different speeds. I'm no physicist, I could be completely wrong, this came from watching a teardown vid.

 

[stealthwolf]

Ended up buying the DLX2002MJ which comprises of the DHP480Z and the DTD129Z, two 4Ah batteries and charger.

Also bought the Wera Impaktor bits. Quick and painless ordering from FFX. The impaktor kit wasn't in the cardboard box but they were inside the macpac case which was nice.

Time to wreak some havoc