Why can't I certify my domestic electrical work?

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Hello chaps,

Not been on in a while but a work colleague asked what he needs to be able to cerify the houses his friend is doing up and selling. As far as I am aware he is a Chartered Engineer or plumber.. I'm not sure :D

..but anyway told him he needs

1. BS7671:2008
2. 2391 (both parts)
3. Part P
4. Registration with a scheme (E.G. The glorious NICEIC)

Was I correct??

Oh.. and the electrical work he does.. how does he make sure it's legit with the local authority?
 
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Was I correct??

No.

He needs no qualifications whatsoever to certify an electrical installation; domestic, commercial, or indeed, industrial.

In fact, there is no express legal requirement for certification of any kind. There are, however, statutory requirements for those working on electrical installations to be competent and proof of such competence may be required in the event of legal proceedings.

In addition, depending on why he is certifying it, he may need to comply with a number of requirements of third parties, such as local authority building control, letting agencies, insurance companies, etc... and some of these agencies may require qualifications.
 
He needs no qualifications whatsoever to certify an electrical installation; domestic, commercial, or indeed, industrial.

:O :O :O

So (no offense) a bus driver can:
1. watch a youtube video on testing
2. certify electrical work on a house he is doing up
3. using a model form from the regs.
4. and use it as proof of testing

And unless it's a third parties requirement this is acceptable?
 
There are, however, statutory requirements for those working on electrical installations to be competent and proof of such competence may be required in the event of legal proceedings.

This would be the bit to focus on here.
 
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He needs no qualifications whatsoever to certify an electrical installation; domestic, commercial, or indeed, industrial.

:O :O :O

So (no offense) a bus driver can:
1. watch a youtube video on testing
2. certify electrical work on a house he is doing up
3. using a model form from the regs.
4. and use it as proof of testing

And unless it's a third parties requirement this is acceptable?

If he can understand and meet the requirements of BS 7671 and inspect, test and certify that this is the case then, yes.

He or she need not be a bus driver; s/he could be a dustbin man, an alcoholic, a nurse, a physicist... heck, even a banker might be capable.
 
There are, however, statutory requirements for those working on electrical installations to be competent and proof of such competence may be required in the event of legal proceedings.

This would be the bit to focus on here.

I agree, a bit too much word play going on.

What word play?

The law simply requires that persons engaged in electrical installation work be competent.
In the event of legal proceedings, that competence may be called into question.
Where's the obfuscation?
 
In addition, depending on why he is certifying it,

This is the real point. If to satisfy myself it is all safe then I can inspect and test without a problem. If I am doing work under Part P and I have paid my fee to LABC then I inspect and test and they consider if they accept my results or if they retest part or all to confirm my results. The LABC is responsible so if I completely mess up there is very little come back to me the LABC will have to explain why they accepted my results.

Of course they are not daft and will want to know how much knowledge you have.

If however you were selling a house then unless you were daft you would want to be able to cover yourself against making a mistake. If you said the installation was A1 and in fact it needed a rewire then you would not want to pay for that rewire. So being sensible you would want to insure for professional indemnity and in this case it would depend on what proof the insurance company wanted that you were competent.

The third case would be if it came to court. Here you would have to prove you had the warranty of skill required. In the same way as the companies who sold mine detectors that did not work have been taken to court for fraud you could also be take to court for fraud if you said a house is A1 and it was not.

If one has been working as an electrician for 30 years then with no formal qualifications one would still be seen normally as having the warranty of skill. However if one has made a huge mistake it would be hard to argue the point and only if minor items were missed would one likely win a fraud case.

However with formal qualifications it is far easier to show you had warranty of skill and easier to argue you made an excusable mistake.

However again if no mistakes are made even with no formal qualifications or experience it would be impossible to prove any case against one.

An employer has a duty of care to ensure his employees are trained for the work required from them and if he was to employ anyone without the necessary training then he would also be in breach of health and safety laws. So if an estate agent wants to employ an electrician he must be able to show he had a duty of care in selecting one who could do the job.

Since the estate agent is not an electrician the only way he can do this is to go by formal qualifications either exams or because they are a member of an overseeing organisation.

So in real terms what you stated is correct but in theory you don't need any qualifications.
 
Hello chaps,

Not been on in a while but a work colleague asked what he needs to be able to cerify the houses his friend is doing up and selling.
Certify as in issuing BS 7671 EICs, or as in certifying that the work complies with the Building Regulations?

BIG DIFFERENCE.


As far as I am aware he is a Chartered Engineer or plumber.. I'm not sure :D
Your work colleague, or his friend who is renovating houses?


..but anyway told him he needs

1. BS7671:2008
2. 2391 (both parts)
3. Part P
4. Registration with a scheme (E.G. The glorious NICEIC)
An interesting mix.

1 is a book which anyone can buy
2 is a C&G qualification
3 is a subset of the Building Regulations, which anyone can download from the OPSI website, if they know which SIs to look for, but they'd be better off downloading the whole consolidated set.
4 may or may not be relevant, depending on what you meant by "certify".


Oh.. and the electrical work he does.. how does he make sure it's legit with the local authority?
Who? Your work colleague, or his friend who is renovating houses?

What have either of them been telling the council would be the way that they proposed to comply with Part P?
 
Ah yes.. sorry sheds... once again your clear and frank direction gains my respect.:cool:

ban-all-sheds said:
Certify as in issuing BS 7671 EICs, or as in certifying that the work complies with the Building Regulations?
BIG DIFFERENCE.

He is buying houses, doing them up and selling them. I assume it's for the building regs.

ban-all-sheds said:
Your work colleague, or his friend who is renovating houses?
The one renovating

ban-all-sheds said:
1 is a book which anyone can buy
2 is a C&G qualification
3 is a subset of the Building Regulations, which anyone can download from the OPSI website, if they know which SIs to look for, but they'd be better off downloading the whole consolidated set.
4 may or may not be relevant, depending on what you meant by "certify".

1. That will be the C&G 2382
2. Yep the 2391-10 and the 2391-302
3. Eekk.. I thought there existed a formal course/exam on its elements
4. Hmm that makes sense now.

ban-all-sheds said:
What have either of them been telling the council would be the way that they proposed to comply with Part P?
Roger that
 
"If he can understand and meet the requirements of BS 7671 and inspect, test and certify that this is the case then, yes. "

I think that's accurate... however...

I rewired a kitchen a couple of years ago and notified Building Control. They sent a bloke out to inspect it who said that I was clearly competent to test the installation and fill out the BS 7671. There was then a long argument about who should do the testing, since I don't own the gear to test insulation resistance, or test RCD trip times. Basically said it was my problem, despite the Part P regs saying it was BC's responsibility to perform these tests.

It's jobsworth fools like this who will put people off from following the proper procedures.
 
It was a very cheery chat about cable sizes and earth bonding until I asked him when he could send someone to test it! Or maybe the tea was too weak and that set him off...
 

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