Why didn't tiles stick?

[Roger465]

I’ve had to partially dismantle a shower, put new studs and marine ply in, then re-tile. I want to re-use the original tiles, so have painstakingly removed them (nightmare, but only broke two – time for the Araldite).

I haven't done any tiling for centuries, and never where water would be involved – only on kitchen/bathroom walls etc. And only smallish tiles. These are quite big and heavy.

Now obviously when it’s in a shower I want to do it properly – which it looks like maybe the house builder didn’t. The existing plywood backing was completely covered with grout/adhesive or whatever you call it, but a lot of the tiles weren’t, which is what made a lot of them relatively easy for me to remove. Pic below – as you can see, it’s clean except for one tiny patch, and was I think held in by the grout round the edges, to the other tiles.

To avoid me making a similarly bad job of it, what did he do wrong? The tile was pressed firmly onto the adhesive, as there are deep dimples where the tile’s “bumps” were – but it wasn’t stuck.

Another thing, if anybody’s still awake, when grout between tiles gets old it tends to shrink etc, and potentially leak. Why don’t we use silicone between tiles instead? I’m sure there’s a really obvious answer, but…

Thanks

 

[bobasd]

first off, ply is not a recommended backing for wall tile.in wet areas its best to use backer board or a render backing.
check that the exposed backing is dead flat,plumb and exactly ninety degrees at inside corners.
the adhesive you show is tub mastic when it should be bagged powdered adhesive.
take photos of the surrounding walls and post them on her please and i can then tell you more.

tilework needs spot on preparation or it wont work.

 

[Roger465]

Marine ply seems to be how it’s done here in N Ireland?

The left hand wall in the pic is block – the other two are stud walls, and have got dry rot in them from a cracked shower tray. The tray was discovered nearly a year ago, and the shower hasn’t been used since, so it’s all dry as a bone now.

I know that at some stage the stud walls will have to come down and be replaced, but I’m not in a position to do that for another couple of years. A damp-proofing guy I spoke to assured me that dry rot can’t spread further in the absence of a supply of water, so I just need to make do till I get my pension in a couple of years.

So my plan has been to cut out the rotten wood, replace, put new ply on it, possibly even tank it as somebody recommended, stick the tiles back on, and relax till 2020 or so…

 

[EddieM]

Nope.. ply wood is 100% wrong. Use a proper backing board.

 

[bobasd]

youd be wasting your time patching up that lot esp as now i can see that the drain waste has been opened up for some reason.
youd be foolish to leave any trace of that dry rot for any length of time.

 

[magicmushroom666]

Going back to the original question, it looks like the original adhesive was put on too thin ie too small notches in the tool, so the protrusions on the tiles hit the wall before the adhesive contacted the rest of the surface.

 

[Roger465]

Going back to the original question, it looks like the original adhesive was put on too thin ie too small notches in the tool, so the protrusions on the tiles hit the wall before the adhesive contacted the rest of the surface.

Ah gotcha. Thanks

 

[Roger465]

youd be wasting your time patching up that lot esp as now i can see that the drain waste has been opened up for some reason.
youd be foolish to leave any trace of that dry rot for any length of time.

The shower tray was made of some kind of cement, and was split - only way I could see to remove it was by breaking it up.

 

[Roger465]

Nope.. ply wood is 100% wrong. Use a proper backing board.

Sorry for my ignorance, but is "backing board" plasterboard?

If it needs to be skimmed or plastered, it's beyond my skill, so I'll have to leave it till I can afford somebody, I guess...

Thanks

{edit} scrub that, found it - apparently it's called "backer board". And it doesn't look like it needs to be plastered or anything, so I'll use that - thanks for the tip

 

[foxhole]

Why use ply when you alredyknow it fails?
https://www.crowntiles.co.uk/hardie...MI_pOevreS2wIVbL7tCh3m6AEyEAQYAyABEgJPrvD_BwE

or eliminate any chance of grout failure.

https://www.splashacrylic.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr6CT5reS2wIVpLXtCh2q4gWkEAAYAyAAEgKyRvD_BwE

 

[Roger465]

Why use ply when you alredyknow it fails?

https://www.crowntiles.co.uk/hardie...MI_pOevreS2wIVbL7tCh3m6AEyEAQYAyABEgJPrvD_BwE

I don’t know anything. That’s why I’m here


If you mean because mine failed, well, it was subject to a sizeable water leak since 1994… I’m guessing most things would fail?

or eliminate any chance of grout failure.


https://www.splashacrylic.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr6CT5reS2wIVpLXtCh2q4gWkEAAYAyAAEgKyRvD_BwE

Yeah, heard about those. But the whole point is that I want to replace the original tiles

 

[foxhole]

Hard I backer won’t fail even when soaked.

 

[Roger465]

youd be wasting your time patching up that lot esp as now i can see that the drain waste has been opened up for some reason.

Sorry, completely misunderstood what you were saying there - do you mean the big hole that's been dug in the mortar? Would the plastic drain pipe normally be completely enclosed in mortar? I guess at some stage in the past it must have been blocked or something.

But the weird thing is that the original tiles don't ever seem to have been disturbed since the house was built in 1994, and I'm pretty sure (from talking to my neighbour in the same kind of house) that the cracked tray is also the original - could it be that - for whatever reason - it's always been like that?

Oherwise it's a bit of a mystery...

Hard I backer won’t fail even when soaked.

Thanks, that's really useful to know

 

[Roger465]

So… if I use backer board, Somebody told me I need special screws to attach it to the studs? And I guess some kind of tape and adhesive for the corners.



I’m feeling my way here guys – thing is, I’ve retired, a lot of time on my hands, and I can afford to take this project really slow, make lots of mistakes, and hopefully learn by them… even if it means I have to do everything twice



I’ll be getting a plumber in to fit the new shower tray, but want to do the rest myself if possible. If anybody’s REALLY bored, any chance of a quick list of things I’ll need to go on from here? As far as I can see (which isn't very far):



Backer board

Screws

Tape for corners

Adhesive for corners

Adhesive for tiles

Grout



Thanks