Why Part P is needed

[bernardgreen]

Removing the worktop and cupboard in the cottage I have just bought revealed this

Untitled

• bernardgreen
• 10 Jul 2011
• 1

The red was the original ring, to the left it supplies a couple more double sockets, in places the cable was buried and in places not.

The brown was added later ( though the cable looks older, possibly second hand ) and was supplying three sockets behind the cupboards for washing machine, tumble dryer and one spare . This cable was hanging loose and draped over the hot and cold pipes to the kitchen sink. The dotted brown line is a cable I removed before taking the photo.

Things like this justify the need to enforce compliance with building regulations ( part P ) and BS7671 ( as minimum ) for all electrical work, DIY and tradesmen.

 

[cumbriahandyman]

Removing the worktop and cupboard in the cottage I have just bought revealed this

Untitled

• bernardgreen
• 10 Jul 2011
• 1

The red was the original ring, to the left it supplies a couple more double sockets, in places the cable was buried and in places not.

The brown was added later ( though the cable looks older, possibly second hand ) and was supplying three sockets behind the cupboards for washing machine, tumble dryer and one spare . This cable was hanging loose and draped over the hot and cold pipes to the kitchen sink. The dotted brown line is a cable I removed before taking the photo.

Things like this justify the need to enforce compliance with building regulations ( part P ) and BS7671 ( as minimum ) for all electrical work, DIY and tradesmen.

Unfortunately, Part P will do nothing to stop people from DIYing, and given the cost of hiring a qualified electrician may well encourage more people to DIY given the current climate.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1) Reminding people about it when they ask questions here might help in some cases. But you don't like that, do you.

2) Part P has had no significant impact on the cost of using a qualified and competent electrician.

 

[cumbriahandyman]

1) Reminding people about it when they ask questions here might help in some cases. But you don't like that, do you.

I like many, many others don't like the way you do it.

2) Part P has had no significant impact on the cost of using a qualified and competent electrician.

Bolix

 

[ericmark]

Part P does not really help. The very people who get it wrong will still DIY and will as a result of Part P being law will not even get a qualified person to check their work.
It has given a loop hole for cow boys to get away with sub-standard work. You hear again and again. "He told me he could do it a lot cheaper without Part P" so when they make errors the house holder is afraid to say anything as they know they have broken the law.
So what it does is hide bad workmanship as people will not admit what they have done.
It also has increased use of extension leads and as a result made the home more dangerous.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I like many, many others don't like the way you do it.

You need to stop deciding to invent words which I have not written just so you can then pretend to dislike them.

Bolix

Go on then - let's see the calculations which show that Part P has significantly increased the cost of using an electrician.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Part P does not really help. The very people who get it wrong will still DIY and will as a result of Part P being law will not even get a qualified person to check their work.

That's because they are idiots. Part P doesn't even apply to PIRs, so cannot have had any effect on getting electricians to do them.

It has given a loop hole for cow boys to get away with sub-standard work. You hear again and again. "He told me he could do it a lot cheaper without Part P" so when they make errors the house holder is afraid to say anything as they know they have broken the law.

That claim is the claim which has been made by cowboys throughout the ages.

If people knowingly employ someone who will work outside the law, chosen just because they are cheap then they have nobody to blame but themsleves.

It's not Part P that makes them do that -it is their own stupidity.

So what it does is hide bad workmanship as people will not admit what they have done.

They've been stupid.

I can't see any requirement in the Building Regulations for stupidity.

It also has increased use of extension leads and as a result made the home more dangerous.

That claim will not withstand even a cursory analysis without factoring in idiocy and stupidity on the part of the householder, and as soon as you do that it becomes clear that the root of the problem is that idiocy and stupidity, not Part P.

 

[ericmark]

The cost of using a Domestic Electrician has not really changed. But before Part P commercial electricians could do domestic work both officially and as an on the side job. So there were many more electricians available and one never heard it said I can't get an electrician for three weeks. There was always some electrician who would do the work if you would pay his fee.

A number of things happened with Part P.
1) Commercial Electricians no longer would do official domestic work.
2) There was a reduction in Commercial Electricians doing unofficial electrical work and a corresponding increase in Ordinary people doing unofficial work.

Although there is now an official way for the DIY man to get his work inspected and tested in the main this option is not used.

And having seen the LABC guy and the way he didn't check the work I did as far as I can see from personal experience all the Part P does when done through LABC is raise more taxes.

With sole traders the Part P scheme has resulted in less official cowboys. If the house holder is willing to pay money for a professional job from a sole trader he is now assured that he will in the main get one. However the larger firms can still employ anyone. They are permitted to use anyone to inspect and test. In the main they will use people with a C&G 2391 or cut down 2392 certificate. But they don't have to and I have seen some really shoddy work. On complaining likely it will get fixed with larger firms but nothing has really changed before and after Part P was started.

With most of the other trades and jobs there has been some form of licensing with the ability to revoke the licence for bad workers. Be it to drive a fork lift or any other even semi-skilled work. But Electricians are not licenced and so any large firm can employ anyone who says he can do the job and that has not changed with Part P.

Only the sole trader has to prove to the scheme provider that he can do the work.

 

[cajar]

I have no doubt that people are put off asking questions on the proper, safe way to do things when they browse a forum and see similar posters being put on the back foot with replies like "when you submitted the building notice, how did you assure the authority you would comply with the law?"

That can have two possible outcomes - a person who did not know the work was regulated will stop and hire an electrician instead (which is no doubt what you guys think happens when someone disappears off the forum after that) OR, they carry on regardless with info they've gleaned elsewhere on the net, which I'm willing to wager is what happens in 90% of cases.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have no doubt that people are put off asking questions on the proper, safe way to do things when they browse a forum and see similar posters being put on the back foot with replies like "when you submitted the building notice, how did you assure the authority you would comply with the law?"

That question is important.

Sometimes people think that they'll be able to "get an electrician to sign it off".

Sometimes they are involved in notifiable work anyway, such as an extension or a loft conversion, and by default or by not thinking things through properly end up telling their LABC that the work will be done by a registered electrician, and more than once we've seen them here describing the car-crash their completion certificate has become because they didn't do what they said they'd do.

It is a question to be read exactly as written - not with the pretence that there are other words there, and not with imaginary interpretations conjured up by people who want it to mean something other than what it simply says.

That can have two possible outcomes - a person who did not know the work was regulated will stop and hire an electrician instead (which is no doubt what you guys think happens when someone disappears off the forum after that) OR, they carry on regardless with info they've gleaned elsewhere on the net, which I'm willing to wager is what happens in 90% of cases.

Perhaps people like that should have taken the trouble to read the Wiki article first.