Wickes HW door frame with a big rebate!

[^woody^]

I have a hardwood door frame from Wickes, and just unwrapped it to get ready to fit, and there is a massive rebate all around the frame.

It's about 2.5mm deep and I wondered why is it there, and if I'm going to get problems sinking the hinges - or not sinking them?

Another annoying thing is that there is no weather bar or cill rebate for the weather bar, and you don't find out until you open the thing that it's designed for an aluminium threshold.

And another another annoying thing is that it's supposed to be "solid hardwood", but is actually solid engineered hardwood.

 

[blup]

Is it to fit a door stop.

Blup

 

[^woody^]

No, it's an external frame with the stop moulded in.

It's even drawn like it on the little instruction sheet that came with it, so it must be intentional.

 

[blup]

Maybe then a weather or intumescent strip

Blup

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Maybe then a weather or intumescent strip

I thought not intumescents, surely? The standard sizes you come across are 10, 15 and 20mm wide x 4mm deep. Then I came across these and these which maybe fit the bill. I certainly can't recall ever seeing weather stripping done that way, but also the narrow edge groove in the corner of the rebate would surely be for an Aquamac-style weather strip?

As to chopping out the hinge recesses - this may be a job best tackled a router and hinge jig. That would also allow provision to be made for intumescent hinge pads, if needed

 

[^woody^]

The channel is much too wide for any retro fit strip of any sort. There is a slot in the stop for the weather strip.

It's an external frame, not an internal lining so there would be no provision for anything other than weather strips. I've never seen an external frame like this.

My concern is not so much chopping the hinges in, but that they won't actually sink into the frame but will sit proud of that channel surface if they are flush with that lip. The lip is 2.5mm so about the thickness of a hinge plate, so if the hinge is flush with the arris, it's going to be above that channel surface, and will look shiite.

 

[RandomGrinch]

The OEM appears to be XL Joinery (I'm afraid it's a lot cheaper than Wickes, bought elsewhere!).
The only additional info I can see is "...rebated for 44mm thick door leaf..." - would a door that thick require extra swing room within the frame to clear when opening?

...and the rebate is shown in the product photos, if you look closely, but no-one has mentioned it in any of the reviews.

 

[^woody^]

The OEM appears to be XL Joinery (I'm afraid it's a lot cheaper than Wickes, bought elsewhere!).
The only additional info I can see is "...rebated for 44mm thick door leaf..." - would a door that thick require extra swing room within the frame to clear when opening?

...and the rebate is shown in the product photos, if you look closely, but no-one has mentioned it in any of the reviews.

I only got it from Wickes as I had a voucher which made it cheaper than elsewhere, and it seemed a good spec for the money.

You may be on to something regarding the swing, and yes this channel may well remove the need to plane the leading edge if that's what it's meant to do. And potentially a square edge would be better for a multipoint lock.

But it's still the hinge situation that concerns me. I can't see how the hinge won't be proud of the channel if it is to be flush with the arris.

I'm just decorating the frame and door before I hang it, and then install it, so will see next week.

 

[foxhole]

Had the same with my new front door , makes adding hinges and keep slightly easier as you only need to rebate the outer edge, think it’s done to remove the need the chamfer leading door edge as it allows it to swing thru .Also less area to bind in winter if things swell due to damp .

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The only additional info I can see is "...rebated for 44mm thick door leaf..." - would a door that thick require extra swing room within the frame to clear when opening?

I think I've fitted enough of them to be able to say no. If you did need that girt great groove to accommodate something the thickness of a 30 minute fire door then we'd have been in trouble years ago

You may be on to something regarding the swing, and yes this channel may well remove the need to plane the leading edge if that's what it's meant to do. And potentially a square edge would be better for a multipoint lock.

Well, about half the doors I install are 44mm fire doors, and if you fit them correctly you should not be putting a leading edge on at all (because it is a fail) - just a minor chamfer on the edge of the door or possibly the casing/frame (which this casing has). Leading edges on doors make for more awkwardness fitting mortise locks and frankly can look awful with a big lock faceplate - and with multipoint/espagnolettes you shouldn't have a leading edge in any case. In fact I'm beginning to wonder if these frames are designed for a multipoint plate to be installed in them (although better quality multipoints I've installed have individual keep bodies which come with their own set of installation issues)

 

[^woody^]

I had to put a leading edge on my front door.

I made a lovely job of the mortice lock, if I may say so. Lock body was square as normal, and the face plate followed the angle of the edge and fitted flush with the help of some hot glue to pack the one side out and a bit of fine filing of the bolt hole to make the travel smooth.

But back to this frame, I can't see any other outcome than hinges and keeps sitting proud of the frame in that channel. I'm not going to want to open this door often.

 

[foxhole]

I think I've fitted enough of them to be able to say no. If you did need that girt great groove to accommodate something the thickness of a 30 minute fire door then we'd have been in trouble years ago


Well, about half the doors I install are 44mm fire doors, and if you fit them correctly you should not be putting a leading edge on at all (because it is a fail) - just a minor chamfer on the edge of the door or possibly the casing/frame (which this casing has). Leading edges on doors make for more awkwardness fitting mortise locks and frankly can look awful with a big lock faceplate - and with multipoint/espagnolettes you shouldn't have a leading edge in any case. In fact I'm beginning to wonder if these frames are designed for a multipoint plate to be installed in them (although better quality multipoints I've installed have individual keep bodies which come with their own set of installation issues)

Not frame for a fire door .

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Not frame for a fire door .

Same standards should apply in terms of the fit, gapping, etc

Also note that not all the doors I install are fire doors. Some of the doors I've been putting in or snagging recently are 60mm thick solid oak, not fire doors, and even they don't require a leading edge or a groove in the rebate. Just correctly gapped and a chamfer on the front edge of the door

 

[^woody^]

I was looking at at some composite doors in plastic frames today, and the plastic frame section is almost exactly like this timber frame.

Typically, composite doors will have multipoint locks, and the keeps sit on the surface of the plastic frame, and then have another face plate on top of the keep box, and this plate ends up just past the lip on the corner aris of the frame.

So it seems that the most likely reason for this channel, is to make this timber frame compatible with composite doors and multipoint lock keeps.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

...I'm beginning to wonder if these frames are designed for a multipoint plate to be installed in them...

Good luck to anyone who wants to put a leading edge onto a timber door with an espagnolette -habong had to do this multiple times, if it don't fit it's a PIA job to take the door off, sink the hinges a bit more, possibly plane-in the back edge of the door (to prevent the hinges binding) then rehang. That's partly why we use routers and hinge jigs to cut the hinge recesses - they deliver consistent, repeatable recesses which humans can't do