Wind farms and Climate Change

[JohnW2]

OK, a bit 'off-topic' - but not much worse than solar panels!

I've just been looking at some ginormous wind turbines on the 6 o'clock news. The most basic laws of physics tell us that if we generate large amounts of electrical energy with these things, we will be taking at least as much energy out of the winds. How much do we know about the probable effects on climate of installing large numbers of massive wind turbines on, or in fairly close proximity to, our populated land masses?

'Wind power' might possibly do a bit to reduce global warning due to greenhouse gases (although I'd like to know the 'carbon footprint' of manufacturing, installing and maintaining these massive things), but what other effects on climate may it bring about?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[riveralt]

Looking out of my bedroom window right now I can see 24 Giant wind turbines in the bay.
At the moment they're facing the south west but when the wind turns to the west I have noticed that a lot more sand is driven in shore than before they were installed. Good job everything here is plastic otherwise we would be layering on the yacht varnish every few months.
Some people have also commented that their impact has also reduced the rainfall in the area - the clouds certainly seem to fly by quicker

Apparantely they have planning permission to build another 24 - though I understand that permission is based on the companies willingness to strengthen the roofs of all the houses in the town.
They came around last week to measure up - so I guess its going to get even more windier around here

 

[sparkticus]

OK, a bit 'off-topic' - but not much worse than solar panels!

I've just been looking at some ginormous wind turbines on the 6 o'clock news. The most basic laws of physics tell us that if we generate large amounts of electrical energy with these things, we will be taking at least as much energy out of the winds. How much do we know about the probable effects on climate of installing large numbers of massive wind turbines on, or in fairly close proximity to, our populated land masses?

'Wind power' might possibly do a bit to reduce global warning due to greenhouse gases (although I'd like to know the 'carbon footprint' of manufacturing, installing and maintaining these massive things), but what other effects on climate may it bring about?

Kind Regards, John.

Off-topic maybe, big question definitely

But to twist (slightly) the discussion and provide my limited response, about as much as we know of what tall buildings and large scale landscaping does to absorb energy from the winds.

 

[JohnW2]

Some people have also commented that their impact has also reduced the rainfall in the area - the clouds certainly seem to fly by quicker ....
Apparantely they have planning permission to build another 24 - though I understand that permission is based on the companies willingness to strengthen the roofs of all the houses in the town. They came around last week to measure up - so I guess its going to get even more windier around here

Changes in rainfall wouldn't surprise me, but I am a little surprised by your implication that they result in an increase in wind / wind speed; if one takes energy out of the wind, I would (perhaps naievely) expected the opposite.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[JohnW2]

Off-topic maybe, big question definitely But to twist (slightly) the discussion and provide my limited response, about as much as we know of what tall buildings and large scale landscaping does to absorb energy from the winds.

That much?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[TheOriginalTonkaToy]

Apparantely they have planning permission to build another 24 - though I understand that permission is based on the companies willingness to strengthen the roofs of all the houses in the town.
They came around last week to measure up - so I guess its going to get even more windier around here

I'm not sure how that would work. As an example, a 1MW wind turbine would reduce the downstream wind energy by a fair bit more than it generates. A farm of them will reduce downstream wind energy significantly there's just no way it can increase it - it can't get windier.

To answer (or attempt to answer) the OP's question though, it's an unknown. Waves are driven by wind energy as are weather patterns. If you sap enough energy out then it's going to slow down both and probably some other systems too - although it would require rather a lot of turbines to achieve a significant effect

 

[EFLImpudence]

Does anyone agree that IT IS generally windier than it used to be?

 

[riveralt]

Apparantely they have planning permission to build another 24 - though I understand that permission is based on the companies willingness to strengthen the roofs of all the houses in the town.
They came around last week to measure up - so I guess its going to get even more windier around here

I'm not sure how that would work. As an example, a 1MW wind turbine would reduce the downstream wind energy by a fair bit more than it generates. A farm of them will reduce downstream wind energy significantly there's just no way it can increase it - it can't get windier.

I was hoping you would get the w i n d up clearly not!

 

[sparkticus]

Off-topic maybe, big question definitely But to twist (slightly) the discussion and provide my limited response, about as much as we know of what tall buildings and large scale landscaping does to absorb energy from the winds.

That much?

It is an interesting question not only related to the balance of generating usable energy VS the impact on existing cities but also in the wider context of what would our weather/climate be like now if our cities had remained largely unchanged, say the way they were 75 years ago.

But I have no idea of the answer other than to declare that it would be different in some way, but how significantly???????

 

[sparkticus]

Only an estimate but if you reduce wind energy (and therefore pressure) in one region then is it not feasible that you could alter pressure fronts enough to allow "another" wind to "push in" The other wind may have "glanced by" but now you get it's full force. So a higher wind speed, albeit a different wind caused by reducing local wind speed - I feel dizzy

 

[JohnW2]

Does anyone agree that IT IS generally windier than it used to be?

Well, since policeman definitely look much younger these days, I hesitate to comment on what appears to have changed over the decades

Kind Regards, John.

 

[riveralt]

But to twist (slightly) the discussion and provide my limited response, about as much as we know of what tall buildings and large scale landscaping does to absorb energy from the winds.

There was a lot of work done in Manchester in particular about the impact of wind on buildings following the 1996 IRA bombing of the city.
The wind, or in this particular case, the blast, was the major contributor toward injuries - the majority of which were outside the police cordon.

The pattern and location of the injured was directly linked to the type of buildings along the blast route. Some types of structures absorbed the blast but the majority funnelled and in some cases increased the blast strength.

 

[JohnW2]

Only an estimate but if you reduce wind energy (and therefore pressure) in one region then is it not feasible that you could alter pressure fronts enough to allow "another" wind to "push in" The other wind may have "glanced by" but now you get it's full force. So a higher wind speed, albeit a different wind caused by reducing local wind speed - I feel dizzy

Yep, that's possible - but, overall, there clearly has to be less energy (hence, presumably, wind speed) 'left' in the totality of all weather systems, if some has been stolen and turned into electricity.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[sparkticus]

Does anyone agree that IT IS generally windier than it used to be?

Well, since policeman definitely look much younger these days, I hesitate to comment on what appears to have changed over the decades

They are not policeman, they are teenage rioters wearing stolen uniforms

 

[JohnW2]

Waves are driven by wind energy as are weather patterns. If you sap enough energy out then it's going to slow down both and probably some other systems too - although it would require rather a lot of turbines to achieve a significant effect

Maybe 'overall', but isn't there the possibility of significant local changes in weather patterns (and other things) in the 'downwind' vicinity of accumulations of turbines?

Kind Regards, John.