Windows replaced... then we discovered that Article 4 applies

[MrCranky]

Oh dear... I think I've made a horrible mistake

We just got our windows replaced in our Victorian house. Beautiful copies of the sliding sash originals in hard wood but double glazed. Asked the installers way back if we needed permission as we're in a conservation area and they said "we've done many around hear and it's a Conservation Area but not Article 4 so no problem".

Which is true for the area in general but not our group of houses to which, I just discovered, Article 4 *does* apply!!! I'm so mad at myself for not double and triple checking before starting but being our first home I figured paying experts who've done this kind of thing before would mean all those details would be covered for us.

Our only saving grace is that the council's currently doing exactly the same all over the area and have already replaced windows for both our neighbours, but the reality is *we* didn't ask for permission.

Adding to all that, we planned to get the ugly 70s-era door and bodged frame replaced with an authentic-looking period one in a couple of months and so obviously we're worried about that too now.

What can we do?

• Should we retrospectively apply for permission?
• If we bury our heads for four years and hope no one complains can we apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness?
• Should we pause the door installation until we can get permission for that at least?

We don't plan to move for a long time if that helps.

Thank you for any advice,
A very nervous MrCranky & family

 

[Mottie]

If it was me, I'd first get on to the people you paid and advised you.

If not, leave it and see if anyone notices, if they do, then ask for retrospective p/p and cross your fingers!

 

[MrCranky]

Thanks Mottie. They are coming round tomorrow to chat about the next stages with the door so I'll take the opportunity then... Just currently sitting here at my desk alone on a Sunday night thinking of all the ways it can go horribly wrong! Time to take a deep breath I think... It is what it is.

 

[Notch7]

Thanks Mottie. They are coming round tomorrow to chat about the next stages with the door so I'll take the opportunity then... Just currently sitting here at my desk alone on a Sunday night thinking of all the ways it can go horribly wrong! Time to take a deep breath I think... It is what it is.

Given how short staffed council departments are, your best bet might be keep quiet. Unless you live in a very prominent position (like a high street), planning enforcement won’t do anything - they mostly only react to complaints by the public.



If you have installed really good upvc - ie those classed as “timber alternative” they are often accepted in conservation areas. The key is if the new windows have sight lines matching the originals and ideally have mechanical butt joints rather than mitred welded ones

There are pro architects on here that likely have some experience in article 4

 

[MrCranky]

Thanks Notch7. That puts me more at ease. The windows are hardwood throughout and as like-for-like as double glazing allows, plus they are very similar to those installed by the council for our neighbours recently. Even the arches and little flourishes are the same as the originals. We have that going for us at least!

The door will also exactly match the design of those on same street but as we're on a road and the colour's quite different from the current one it'll be hard to hide. I figure if we apply for permission for just the door it could stir up the bees nest for the windows :/

Maybe I should keep my mouth shut on all accounts and pray for a peaceful 4 years!

 

[^woody^]

All that PD rights being removed means is that you should apply for permission. If the windows are similar then it won't be an issue.

1. Either get the installers to apply for permission at their cost and deal with the application, and the consequences of an [unlikely] negative decision

2. Or put the installers on notice, regarding their negligent advice, to protect yourself, but then leave it at that, take no action with the installer or the council. See what develops.

For the door, it depends on what style it is and whether subjectively it fits in with the area and building style.

Bear in mind if you apply for permission for the door, you probably will need to for the windows too as they may get noticed.

 

[mrrusty]

It's often prudent to plan to ask for forgiveness than permission.

 

[Notch7]

Thanks Notch7. That puts me more at ease. The windows are hardwood throughout and as like-for-like as double glazing allows, plus they are very similar to those installed by the council for our neighbours recently. Even the arches and little flourishes are the same as the originals. We have that going for us at least!

The door will also exactly match the design of those on same street but as we're on a road and the colour's quite different from the current one it'll be hard to hide. I figure if we apply for permission for just the door it could stir up the bees nest for the windows :/

Maybe I should keep my mouth shut on all accounts and pray for a peaceful 4 years!

I’m sorry, I misread your opening thread post.

like for like timber would almost certainly be fine….my only concern would be if the sight lines are widely different

double glazing requires bigger rebates and more chunky sections -so the sightlines would be different from the originals (assuming they were single glazed) -provided your windows arent too chunky, it should be fine.

With sliding sash windows, the chunky sections are usually noticed on the meeting stiles and the georgian glazing bars -as long as these arent too big, there should be no problem.

 

[Diver Fred]

Is the glazing 'Heritage' double glazing units (12mm) or standard DG units (20/25mm)?