Doesn't it depend on whether you draw the stem as one line or two?
Where is the neutral if a daisy-chain represents in series?
Wiring a push-to-break switch with 3 downlights (diagram)
- Thread starter FoxtrotOscar
- Start date
Where is the neutral if a daisy-chain represents in series?
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Hi again all
I'd thought I'd drop in again with the fruits of my labour. You can see the switch top right of the door frame.
All went well (though it wasn't much fun righting through the attic space with only two torches with its large spiders and itchy insulation) and your help was much appreciated. I used a choc box instead of a junction box in the end (to take a spur off the light circuit) and then wired them as per my second diagram.
I went with the switch I was proposing, as I've adjusted the hinges and am comfortable that there's no danger of the door not closing sufficiently to completely break the circuit.
I was very lucky with the placement of the joists above, as they allowed perfectly even spacing of the 3 LED downlights I used.
Can I stress that you were ALL very helpful and there was no confusion caused by any of your replies, at least from my point of view.
Cheers
I'd thought I'd drop in again with the fruits of my labour. You can see the switch top right of the door frame.
All went well (though it wasn't much fun righting through the attic space with only two torches with its large spiders and itchy insulation) and your help was much appreciated. I used a choc box instead of a junction box in the end (to take a spur off the light circuit) and then wired them as per my second diagram.
I went with the switch I was proposing, as I've adjusted the hinges and am comfortable that there's no danger of the door not closing sufficiently to completely break the circuit.
I was very lucky with the placement of the joists above, as they allowed perfectly even spacing of the 3 LED downlights I used.
Can I stress that you were ALL very helpful and there was no confusion caused by any of your replies, at least from my point of view.
Cheers
It's kind of you to speak out in my 'defence', but you've actually gone far further that I did, or would!!
It's true that, in terms of what a (true) 'daisy chain' really is, the analogy would seem to be far more with a series circuit than a parallel one. However, one has to accept that, despite that, it has come to be widely used to refer to 'parallel connection' situations. I therefore would not (and did not) suggest that one should attempt to 'outlaw' its (very common) use to refer to 'parallel connections' - but, as I said, I think this is very good reason for advising caution in interpreting the words 'daisy chain' when applied (in imperfect analogy) to things other than daisys.
Kind Regards, John
Is that not really the point, and the reason why the analogy with a true daisy chain is, in truth, (but not estalished 'common usage') closer to a series circuit than a parallel one? Daisies only have a single stem (c.f. 'line'), and hence are arguably more analogous with series electrical circuits, in which there is only one conductor connecting each of the elements? One could, I suppose, think of parallel circuits as being a pair of daisy chains, or a double daisy chain!
Kind Regards, John
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Cheers, F.O. Always nice to see the results of the discussions on here.
Kind of you to say so - I'm glad you got the help & advice you were looking for. Don't worry about the tangential debates that result - that's quite common, here
That is indeed so and I cannot argue with the logic.
I am convinced.
The deduction being that the term is therefore never analogous with in parallel connections.
I shall not use it again.
Perhaps 'laddered' would be better.
Goodness, I really didn't intend to have that effect!! Given the widespread (albeit logically incorrect) use of 'daisy chain' to refer to a parallel circuit, I have never even hinted a suggestion that people should stop using the 'established' phrase in that context - I was merely suggesting 'caution' because of the potential confusion!
Certainly a theoretically somewhat better analogy than 'daisy chain' - but what's wrong with plain simple 'parallel'?
Kind Regards, John
Getting a bit back 'on-topic'....
Kind Regards, John
Here is an example of a switch that I've had in one of my wardrobes for a bit over 25 years. It consists of a standard panel-mounting ('positive action') microswitch (an RS one, IIRC) mounted in a single surface box (there is a structure on the inside of the door which pushes against it when the door closes).
Kind Regards, John
Or one could grow some common sense.
Perhaps one could also subscribe to the view that anybody confused enough to wire lights in series should never do electrical work.
Well I shall - absolutely nothing in the pages of nonsense above have convinced me that there is anything wrong with using "daisy chain" as originally proposed.
So probably will I, since the habit is established. As I've said, the colloquial terminology is so well-established that I have never in any of the 'nonsense above' even hinted that anyone should stop using 'daisy chaining' to refer to parallel-connected circuits.
All I've ever said, since there clearly are some people who, in some situations, use the term to refer to a series-connected circuit, is that some caution should be exercised is interpreting the meaning of 'daisy chain' when they come across it. Is that so unreasonable?
As a matter of interest, if I told you that I had 'daisy-chained' a number of LEDs, what would you understand by that?
Kind Regards, John
That you had connected them physically in a line but the wiring method cannot be determined.
As a matter of interest, if I told you that I had 'daisy-chained' a number of LEDs, what would you understand by that?Quite - but, if I understand them correctly, some of those who have commented in this thread would feel that 'daisy-chained' definitely meant that they had been connected in parallel.EFLImpudence";p="2840981 said:That you had connected them physically in a line but the wiring method cannot be determined.
Another example ... one hears of 'daisy chaining' of a number of repeaters (amplifiers) along the length of a long communications cable? Would some people really believe that it meant that the cable had connected the inputs of all the repeaters together?
Kind Regards, John
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