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Worcester-Bosch 30CDi - Controller recommendations? Wave?

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by leonlikestrees, 16 Dec 2015.

  1. leonlikestrees

    leonlikestrees

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    Hi all,

    i've just moved into a house that has had a new CH system installed in the last 2 years. The boiler is a WB 30CDI, there is a vented hot water cylinder, and the rads mostly have TRVs (exception seems to be towel rails in all the bathrooms). There is a wood burner/ boiler installed, which is also plumbed into the system somehow, and I understand it contributes when's it hot enough. there is a thermostat on the pipe for this, but not sure how it works.

    Unfortunately, no controller has been fitted at all. At the moment, there is a plug on the end of some cable, and you plug it into the mains to have heating, and unplug it to turn it off! I think the hot water is always on, as it's always making a noise of some sort.

    I've upgraded this already with a timer switch (!), which is a small improvement, but I want to go beyond this.

    I was looking at the latest generation of smart thermostats. The "obvious" candidate is the Worcester Wave, but there seems to be reports of bugs with the app, and looking on Google Play, the app was last updated in October 2014. I don't think anyone will be fixing those bugs.

    This controller has the advantage however of being able to control the hot water and heating, and has the load compensation capability.

    Is there a better alternative? Is the load compensation worth that much? My inclination is to go towards a basic evohome setup, or maybe a nest, as I expect those to stay in continuous development, but then I (presume) I lose load compensation.

    Basically, I'm interested in:
    • anyone's real world experience of the Wave
    • any ideas on the significance of the energy saving from load compensation (compared to on/off, like nest)
    • any suggestions for alternate products.
     
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  3. simond

    simond

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    It is unlikely the WAVE will be compatible with your boiler, as it needs to;
    - be a 30CDi System (not Regular)
    - have a 3 pipe system installed

    The WAVE is very good and you can rely on Bosch to keep it up to scratch. But I don't think it will be compatible, because the chances of both the above being in place are slim.

    Out of the others, Evohome is the best. Neither Evo nor the Nest can control the modulation of the boiler like WAVE.
     
  4. ajsdoc

    ajsdoc

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    Probably a novice question, what's a 3 pipe system?
     
  5. leonlikestrees

    leonlikestrees

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    I do have a Greenstar 30cdi System according to the manual. I'm not sure what the "system" designates, but I guess that pits the wave back on the table.

    Problem with bugs is not so much the controller,as the phone app. As I said, its not been updated for over a year, which doesn't suggest that they are keeping it up to scratch.
     
  6. jedi

    jedi

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    I have no such bugs/problems with the app.. It's rock solid... I use the android version though?

    Can you explain what these problems/bugs are?

    If you Google "nefit easy" you will see reviews etc on what looks like the same controller... Only problem is there either in Dutch... Google translate is your fried here.
     
    Last edited: 16 Dec 2015
  7. leonlikestrees

    leonlikestrees

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    Interesting. It was android I was looking at. Bugs seemed to be mostly related to proximity/ occupancy based on detection of the phone, and some check target temperature message that keeps showing. It was the lack of all updates that bothered me. Suggests a long dev cycle (of any), and in this day and age, I expect smart products to continue improving after I've bought them. Overall the reviews are positive though.

    What is curious is that Nefit was updated in June, and has a change log (in Dutch I suppose) so perhaps that update will come to the UK soon.

    (edited to sort out all my stupid phone auto-corrects!)
     
    Last edited: 17 Dec 2015
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  9. jedi

    jedi

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    Yep I've noticed that too... The nefit app is on version 3.01 and the wave app is on version 2.0
    Nefit updated June 2015
    Wave updated Oct 2014

    I think the nefit has been available since 2011 in Dutch land..So may have ironed out a few faults/bugs before it hit UK markets? They may have more advanced options in there app/boiler.?

    Not sure what nefit boilers are either? Are the rebadged Worcester bosch or vice versa?

    One other thing I noticed too. Is that the wave periodically opens up port 2000 callback?

    No idea what that port is for, but looks like WB can remotely access the boiler for fault codes etc... And who knows what else?, as they also have access to my network via the wave....
     
    Last edited: 17 Dec 2015
  10. simond

    simond

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    Nefit are owned by Buderus, who are owned by Bosch Thermotechnic.

    Three pipe system is where 30CDi system has the optional diverter valve inside and a separate pipe to the cylinder. Bet you haven't got that.
     
  11. leonlikestrees

    leonlikestrees

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    Not sure what I've got. Getting closer to figuring it out though.

    I have a large cylinder, intended to be used as a heat store.

    It's fed from a wood burning stove and the boiler, and has pipework for solar thermal (but no panels installed)

    the central heating is driven from the cylinder, and at the moment, it's that pump that has a plug hanging off it to control the heating (i.e. plug on, water pumps around the CH).

    With that system, I'm not convinced there is a lot of value in a really fancy controller that can control the heat output of the boiler, since all it does is kicks in when the cylinder loses temp, and then turns off again.

    I think there would be value in a multiroom system like an evohome though, as that would reduce the heat loss in the cylinder significantly (I guess), reducing the load on the boiler.
     
  12. simond

    simond

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    You wouldn't be able to control the heat in the heatstore via Evohome in a sensible fashion, though.
     
  13. leonlikestrees

    leonlikestrees

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    Is there a need to control the heat in the heatstore?

    My simplistic take is that I want to reduce the draw on it, so it will require replenishing less frequently.

    If I had evohomeshop, it would control when the CH is on in different rooms (and altogether) reducing the draw.

    Am I missing something important? Should I be trying to manage the demand on the boiler from the heatstore better?
     
  14. m0t

    m0t

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    I know the nest isn't your first choice here but since it was mentioned I thought I would add my thoughts on it.

    I have had a version 2 Nest for just over a year and I wouldn't buy another.

    Nest releases periodic updates but don't appear to do any testing (or not enough outside the US) so have rendered the device useless twice this year.

    The first time was an update which broke the devices ability to adjust for the clocks going forward in the spring. We had about 3 weeks waking up to a cold house whilst they fixed this.

    The second time was mid Nov when they released an update which broke the time to temp function, so the heating wasn't coming on until it was supposed to have reached the set temp.

    Nest support has been poor during both issues (they don't acknowledge issues and on the occasions I have called I have been connected to a useless foreign call centre).

    Twice this year my unit has lost wireless connection to the base for no reason (it's a relatively common software fault). The unit is supposed to show a warning when this happens but last time it didn't so I was not popular with the Mrs the next morning. The only way to fix this is a convoluted reset procedure which results in the thermostat having to relearn everything.
     
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