Would this work need certifying?

[s1977]

All

We have recently completed a side extension to our house. As part of that we had new electrics fitted onto the new build. I have the Part P certificate from the electrician for that.

However the electrician did not migrate all electrical connections to the new main switchboard (replaced old board for new to add new extensions), namely garden and security lights. My builder therefore got someone else (who I was told, is certified to a level, but not to the level where he can issue a certificate himself). He has done the following:
1. Connected all outside electrics off a new RCD on the main switchboard. These were existing electrics that were not connected to the main switchboard directly previously but still were connected via an RCD.
2. As one of our old single wall socket is now inaccessible (as it is behind our central heating pipes, he has put a blanking plate on it and extended that socket sideways into a new one.
3. As part of our kitchen installation, we have moved the location of our electric oven. So he has blanked off the existing oven switch and shifted the same onto another wall. I think he has crimped the cables together as part of extending the cables.

Reading about Part P, I was a bit confused if it applies in our case. Especially since previously we had a wall separating the utility room and kitchen and the main switchboard was in the utility. Now that we have knocked down that wall, does the entire room come under the rules applicable to kitchens under Part P? Would I need to notify the council of the additional changes?

Any help and guidance from yourselves will be much appreciated.

Regards
Sush

 

[dingbat]

All

We have recently completed a side extension to our house. As part of that we had new electrics fitted onto the new build. I have the Part P certificate from the electrician for that.

No you haven't. There is no such thing.

Reading about Part P, I was a bit confused if it applies in our case.

It applies to all domestic electrical work.

Now that we have knocked down that wall, does the entire room come under the rules applicable to kitchens under Part P?

Yes.

 

[s1977]

Thanks dingbat! Just to update this thread, I have been supplied with a "Domestic Electrical Installation Certificate" from NICEIC by my electrician. This is what i meant by the certificate. Apologies for mixing terms there. This has been supplied to the council already.

Would the additional work as indicated above, now need to be subject to inspection by a certified electrician again? Would I expect him to issue me a certificate similar to the one above? If so, would I need to notify the council of this work? I asked my builder of the same but he didn't say it did and I am not keen to take any chances whatsoever on this. As you can see, I am not too knowledgable on this topic.

Thanks
Sush

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

If the electrician that carried the work out could not self cert, the work should have been notified to building controls prior to any work being carried out.
You will find it hard to get an electrician that will be willing to take on the responsibility of issuing certs for someone elses installation work.

 

[s1977]

PrenticeBoyofDerry
Thanks! The only reason I went on with this was 'coz my builder indicated that this does not need any certifying and that the original electrician (who submitted the certificate) was too busy (or may have raised his price) for the work. This was the reason that he got someone else from the trade who I was told is certified to a degree but not enough to issue certificates under his own name.

I am assuming in all of this that the work indicated above that has been done NEEDS certifying and informing the council? Isn't it? Can you help answer this? I will then get an electrician to do the job again.

 

[riveralt]

Thanks dingbat! Just to update this thread, I have been supplied with a "Domestic Electrical Installation Certificate" from NICEIC by my electrician. This is what i meant by the certificate. Apologies for mixing terms there. This has been supplied to the council already.

You should also receive a building control notification from NICEIC - normally within three to four weeks.

Would the additional work as indicated above, now need to be subject to inspection by a certified electrician again?

Yes because he should have tested the circuits he installed

Would I expect him to issue me a certificate similar to the one above?

and yes he should have issued you with an additional Electrical Installation Certificate.

If so, would I need to notify the council of this work? I asked my builder of the same but he didn't say it did and I am not keen to take any chances whatsoever on this.

The person who installed/added to the new circuit in the kitchen in particular should have been registered with a competent persons scheme or registered the work with the LA BC authority before work began.

It is possible that when your applied for Planning permission and/or Building regulation notice the whole of electrical installation was included. I would speak to the BC officer and discuss the matter with them. They make take the view that everything is okay and no further certificate is needed - but perhaps not. Either way they will advise you what to do next.

 

[s1977]

riveralt

Thanks! I did received a building control notification from NICEIC some days ago. The new electrician did test and demonstrate working of the new installations, but he didn't give me any additional EIC suggesting that the work didn't need any. Well now I know!

Guess the way forward would be for me to get in touch with the council and discuss their requirements firsthand.

Thanks again everyone for your advise!

regards
Sush

 

[Wontdothatagain]

I would be in touch with the builder and ask why he had an electrician who was not able to issue a EIC do the work.

I would go down this route before getting BC involved but explain that you will if he does not get it sorted.

 

[dingbat]

The new electrician did test and demonstrate working of the new installations, but he didn't give me any additional EIC suggesting that the work didn't need any. Well now I know!

Testing has been a requirement of the 'Wiring Regulations' since 1882 and certification of all electrical installation work has been a requirement since 1939.

A significant number of 'electricians' still seem to be unaware of this.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I would suggest that Building Control have done their bit, as have NICEIC.
The job has been completed and you have a Building Regs completion cert from NICEIC. BC will have signed off their paperwork and its all done.

All that you are missing is an Installation Cert from the electrician who did the work. This will give you the test results and his signature saying that the work he has done complies with BS7671.
So, your beef is with the electrician.

If you have a real problem, chase the electrician through NICEIC, they like that!

 

[riveralt]

So, your beef is with the electrician.

If you have a real problem, chase the electrician through NICEIC, they like that!

I think the problem is that the second electrician does not belong to NICEIC so who you going to chase?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I think we need some clarity on whether the outside and kitchen installation work was notified, either at the same time as the extension or at a later stage.

 

[s1977]

Sorry guys, I didn't expect so many responses so soon.


PrenticeBoyofDerry, the work done later was not notified as these were identified as defects at a later stage. I pointed out to the builder that the new electrical setup/wiring didn't migrate the outside light connections and so on. The socket moving too was done purely as the boiler installation had made the old socket inaccessible. Both of these were treated as migrations from the old setup. The only thing that was done as part of the kitchen installation was the relocation of the oven switch.

So, no, this change was not notified as the builder indicated that this kind of work need not be notified. Thats the reason I raised this post to establish whether or not I should notify the council or not.


Wontdothatagain, Man, I how true is that username. The problem with the current situation is that now the builder will be reluctant to show up, let alone fix it all esp. if he knows that he has to pay up. So, I do not think that I will make much progress chasing the builder. I would rather progress this myself as much as I can.

riveralt, I am not sure who the second electrician is registered with and I will find it difficult to chase that.

One of the reasons that I thought that this work may look odd is that the RCD fitted on the main switchboard as part of the external security/garden light fitting is not mentioned on the 3rd page (switch box configuration) of the NICEIC certificate that was provided by the certified electrician. So it would easily appear to have been done after that time and I would want to formalise the work done.

regards
Sush

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

We can assume the second electrician was not a scheme member, therefore can not self cert, but I would chase him up or the builder find out if that is true or not.
But to cut to the chase, you may well need building controls to inspect, I would contact them and ask them the question, some are quite approachable.
If the electrician is known to them and they are aware of his quality of work (hopefully good) they may well be happy to just have the test results.

 

[s1977]

PrenticeBoyofDerry
Thanks. I just updated my previous response while you submitted yours. Another problem that I have is that the NICEIC certificate does not have any mention of the new RCD switch added onto the mains board by the new electrician. So it would easily appear to have been done after that time and I would want to formalise the work done.

I will speak to my builder to see what he can do, failing which I will speak to building control and seek their advice.