Pond Pump - Which option please for wiring?

[malibu2606]

Hi,

I understand that all outdoor electrical work requires Part P certification, but would a pond pump which is simply plugged in to a socket require this?

I had a family member 're-do' our garden in 2007. He created a pond for us and ran the flex of the pond pump under the paving slabs and through the wall of the house. At the time I didn't know anything about Part P etc.. so didn't think to raise any issues. He ran the flex through the wall of the house where it could be connected to the mains when we had our new kitchen fitted. The new kitchen was fitted and a Part P certified electrician did all the electrical work including connecting the pond pump to the mains via an RCD. We now have an internal switch which DID operate the pump.

The pump gave up a few years ago and we are now looking to replace it. As far as I am aware the switch still works etc...but I want a new pump without having to get a Part P electrician to do it. But I obviously want to ensure the pond/electrics are safe.

Can someone have a look at the below ideas and advise which is best and if it avoids having to get it Part P certified?

1) I was thinking of cutting the existing pump flex and connecting to new pump flex by putting a weatherproof junction box on the external wall - Can someone advise if this would require a Part P certification?? My concern with this option is that the pond flex which runs underground (installed by my family member!) will still be used, it is not armoured cable but may have some protection as it's possible it's run through a length of hose pipe.

2) An alternative would be if I could place the new pump in the pond, attach a plug to the end of the cable and run the 10mtr pump flex overground (clipped to a small wall) and through the garage wall and into an RCD protected socket? The distance between the pond and the garage is only around 2mtrs, inside the garage the distance is around 5mtrs to the nearest socket. Again, would this avoid the whole Part P thing?

3) I can buy a Oase underwater (IP68) cable connector which is also an option but I don't know how I feel about having 2 x cables joining underwater and also don't know if a Part P electrician would need to do this? No new cabling required, just chop off the old pump and connect the new in the actual pond.

Has anyone got any other ideas? The house is only 3 mtrs from the pond one way and the garage about 2 mtrs the other way. It is a raised pond with paving slabs all around. There is a little step and a small raise bed which will allow me to run the flex above ground for idea '2' above.

Many thanks in advance - I really would love some answers as I have the pond pump waiting to go in. I want it to be safe, but for it not to require Part P certification.

Thanks again,

Jeanette

 

[streetlighter]

Hi,

I understand that all outdoor electrical work requires Part P certification, but would a pond pump which is simply plugged in to a socket require this?

I had a family member 're-do' our garden in 2007. He created a pond for us and ran the flex of the pond pump under the paving slabs and through the wall of the house. At the time I didn't know anything about Part P etc.. so didn't think to raise any issues. He ran the flex through the wall of the house where it could be connected to the mains when we had our new kitchen fitted. The new kitchen was fitted and a Part P certified electrician did all the electrical work including connecting the pond pump to the mains via an RCD. We now have an internal switch which DID operate the pump.

The pump gave up a few years ago and we are now looking to replace it. As far as I am aware the switch still works etc...but I want a new pump without having to get a Part P electrician to do it. But I obviously want to ensure the pond/electrics are safe.

Can someone have a look at the below ideas and advise which is best and if it avoids having to get it Part P certified?

1) I was thinking of cutting the existing pump flex and connecting to new pump flex by putting a weatherproof junction box on the external wall - Can someone advise if this would require a Part P certification?? My concern with this option is that the pond flex which runs underground (installed by my family member!) will still be used, it is not armoured cable but may have some protection as it's possible it's run through a length of hose pipe.

2) An alternative would be if I could place the new pump in the pond, attach a plug to the end of the cable and run the 10mtr pump flex overground (clipped to a small wall) and through the garage wall and into an RCD protected socket? The distance between the pond and the garage is only around 2mtrs, inside the garage the distance is around 5mtrs to the nearest socket. Again, would this avoid the whole Part P thing?

3) I can buy a Oase underwater (IP68) cable connector which is also an option but I don't know how I feel about having 2 x cables joining underwater and also don't know if a Part P electrician would need to do this? No new cabling required, just chop off the old pump and connect the new in the actual pond.

Has anyone got any other ideas? The house is only 3 mtrs from the pond one way and the garage about 2 mtrs the other way. It is a raised pond with paving slabs all around. There is a little step and a small raise bed which will allow me to run the flex above ground for idea '2' above.

Many thanks in advance - I really would love some answers as I have the pond pump waiting to go in. I want it to be safe, but for it not to require Part P certification.

Thanks again,

Jeanette

Personally there is no way of avoiding the Part P issue! simply by placing the flex into a hosepipe is not considered good practice nor does it provide any mechanical protection!
i would put an external IP rated Socket on the External of the garage wall, Purchase some conduit and place this around the fencing that you mentioned beforehand (which in turn would supply mechanical protection to the pump flex) run the conduit as far as possible to where the pump will be placed inside the pond.
So long as the circuit that the socket is on is protected by a 30mA RCD
hope this helps

 

[malibu2606]

[/quote]

Personally there is no way of avoiding the Part P issue! simply by placing the flex into a hosepipe is not considered good practice nor does it provide any mechanical protection!
i would put an external IP rated Socket on the External of the garage wall, Purchase some conduit and place this around the fencing that you mentioned beforehand (which in turn would supply mechanical protection to the pump flex) run the conduit as far as possible to where the pump will be placed inside the pond.
So long as the circuit that the socket is on is protected by a 30mA RCD
hope this helps[/quote]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. I didn't think a pond flex needed to have any protection at all but is designed not to run for great lengths outdoors (should be connected to armoured as soon as possible, but at a safe distance from the pond?). I understand the hose pipe thing is not thorough enough & had I known about Part P when my garden was done, I would have asked my family member to leave the pond pump and I would have got the electrician to do the whole lot.

Anyway, what is done is done and it is why I would like to avoid using the existing cable which runs under the paving slabs. Thanks for your advise - what does the conduit need to be made out of? The cable would run along a small wall (no fencing in the garden) and would it not be possible just to thread the flex through the garage wall (there is already a hole through it from a previous cable) and plug it in the nearest socket? Ensuring it has a 30mA RCD of course.

One last thing - The new pump hasn't actually got a plug at the end of it - Presumably there is no problem with me putting one on? The pump instructions says it is designed to be wired into the mains, but doesn't say it shouldn't have a plug put on it. If attaching a plug is okay, how many amps does the fuse have to be?

Answers gratefully received, if I need to get a different pump I need to send it back by Thursday or I can't return it .


Thanks very much,

Jeanette

 

[EFLImpudence]

If the garage is only two metres away can you not have cable/flex put in a substantial steel tube. EDIT - must be earthed.

I once persuaded a customer not to have anything to do with a similar device which was just bought at a garden centre - in my view an irresponsible sale.

It had the flimsiest of leads supposed to be laid around the garden.
Far from ideal with children playing with their spades and Granddad mowing the lawn.

 

[streetlighter]

putting a plug on it is no problem, so long as it is mechanically protected!

fuse rating depends on the wattage of the pump

i would run the cable inside of a heavy guage plastic conduit

http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/plastic-conduit-acc/cat830584

apologies for saying fencing, i did actually mean the wall that you have in situe! Fix the conduit to the wall with conduit saddles at regular intervals and attach plug top with correct fuse at the socket! if there is an existing hole in the garage wall then simply pass the flex through this and plug into an RCD protected socket! Bring the conduit as tight to the garage wall as possible!
NOTE: do not submerge the conduit simply bring it as far to the pond as possible (i.e the edge of the pond liner) then submerge the pond pump!

Hope this helps

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hi,

I understand that all outdoor electrical work requires Part P certification,

No.

All outdoor electrical work has to comply with part P, because Part P applies to any work whatsoever on fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter which operate at low or extra-low voltage and are—
(a) in or attached to a dwelling;
(b) in the common parts of a building serving one or more dwellings, but excluding power supplies to lifts;
(c) in a building that receives its electricity from a source located within or shared with a dwelling; or
(d) in a garden or in or on land associated with a building where the electricity is from a source located within or shared with a dwelling.

Not all outdoor electrical work requires notifying though, see Schedule 4.

but would a pond pump which is simply plugged in to a socket require this?

If the pond pump and/or the supply to it is fixed then Part P applies to it. Being plugged in does not provide a blanket exemption from the requirements for safety.

I had a family member 're-do' our garden in 2007. He created a pond for us and ran the flex of the pond pump under the paving slabs

That's almost certainly unsafe, and therefore illegal.

I want a new pump without having to get a Part P electrician to do it. But I obviously want to ensure the pond/electrics are safe.

I believe that pumps have sealed captive cables, so you can't just disconnect the old one and connect a new one to the existing cable (as you could, for example, with an outside light).

So the cable will need replacing, and as you recognise, this should be done safely.

1) I was thinking of cutting the existing pump flex and connecting to new pump flex by putting a weatherproof junction box on the external wall - Can someone advise if this would require a Part P certification??

A) You are required to make reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of it in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installation from fire or injury.

B) It would be notifiable, and therefore if not done by a registered electrician would require you to apply for Building Regulations in advance.

My concern with this option is that the pond flex which runs underground (installed by my family member!) will still be used, it is not armoured cable but may have some protection as it's possible it's run through a length of hose pipe.

Such "protection" is in fact non-existent.

2) An alternative would be if I could place the new pump in the pond, attach a plug to the end of the cable and run the 10mtr pump flex overground (clipped to a small wall) and through the garage wall and into an RCD protected socket? The distance between the pond and the garage is only around 2mtrs, inside the garage the distance is around 5mtrs to the nearest socket. Again, would this avoid the whole Part P thing?

No.

If you clip the cable to the wall, it's a fixed electrical cable, and therefore Part P applies.

3) I can buy a Oase underwater (IP68) cable connector which is also an option but I don't know how I feel about having 2 x cables joining underwater and also don't know if a Part P electrician would need to do this? No new cabling required, just chop off the old pump and connect the new in the actual pond.

Ironically you could do that and it would be outside the scope of Part P (unless the pump is fixed, which I guess it is not).

Many thanks in advance - I really would love some answers as I have the pond pump waiting to go in. I want it to be safe, but for it not to require Part P certification.

Focus on the former, not the latter.

Given a choice between a good safe job which requires notification and a dodgy bodge chosen to avoid notification and safety requirements pick the safe option every time even if you don't notify it.

 

[malibu2606]

putting a plug on it is no problem, so long as it is mechanically protected!

fuse rating depends on the wattage of the pump

i would run the cable inside of a heavy guage plastic conduit

http://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/plastic-conduit-acc/cat830584

apologies for saying fencing, i did actually mean the wall that you have in situe! Fix the conduit to the wall with conduit saddles at regular intervals and attach plug top with correct fuse at the socket! if there is an existing hole in the garage wall then simply pass the flex through this and plug into an RCD protected socket! Bring the conduit as tight to the garage wall as possible!
NOTE: do not submerge the conduit simply bring it as far to the pond as possible (i.e the edge of the pond liner) then submerge the pond pump!

Hope this helps

Thanks loads - I was planning on running the cable along the 'side' of a very little step which is only about 2" high, but can't really do that if I use conduit and the conduit will just be too big and probably a tripping hazard. I think I might therefore remove the 2 x stone slabs which make up the step and run the cable within the conduit under in the cavity and then put the slabs back on the top.

Regarding the Part P issue -

I know the above is not ideal but I believe it to be safe. When I come to move house I will just remove the pond pump and take it with me anyway so hopefully it will not be an issue regarding providing certificates etc... my main concern is safety.

Ban-all-sheds - Ref the use of the Oase underwater connector which seems to be outside the scope of Part P - The pump is wired into the mains & therefore fixed?? But the wiring to the mains was done by a Part P qualified electrician (he did the internal work). However, by using the Oase connector, this means I still use the unprotected cable which runs under the paving slabs - and I really want to avoid that. Thanks for advising the flex running along the wall is within the scope of Part P as it makes it a fixed connection - that makes sense. I guess if I was just running the cable over flat ground & plugging it in through a window, that would be different (although still not very safe!!)

Here's the instructions from the Pond Pump manual:


This product
is designed to be permanently wired to
the mains supply in a dry weatherproof
enclosure through a Double-Pole
Switched Fused Spur - (Disconnector) to
BS 3676, with a minimum contact
separation of 3mm in each Pole &
Fitted with a 3 or 5 Amp fuse.


So I assume I can put a plug on the end of the cable and put in a 3 or 5 amp fuse??? (an RCD will also be used)


Thanks,

Jeanette

 

[streetlighter]

hi again

i can not see anything wrong with running the flex in question in the prescribed route that you stated so long as it is mechanically protected via the conduit system.

in regards to the plug the size fuse would depend on the wattage of the pump in question also in provision that an RCD is going to be used!

i would recommend that this is carried out by a PART P electrician just to be on the safe side