Would you buy a Worcester 24i/28i Junior?

[JeffDe]

this thread is funny. Every boiler suggested has been rubbished by someone else ! Truth is if you go for a vaillant or WB you won't generally be dissapointed(I don't like WB as a repair engineer, pig to work on). Same could be said for a number of others now such as viessmann, baxi, remeha all are reasonably reliable on a good installation.
Personally I stick with Vaillant mostly now, they rarely fail but if they do i know i have a proper engineer and an agreed timeslot to fix it, not some agent who's off somewhere fitting a boiler. Many of the smaller manufacturers use agents, its pot luck whether the one you get will be any use, if you get him.
The Intergas is fairly new in the UK and some of us who live in hard water areas have expressed our concerns about scale. Intergas will not guarantee against scaling so clearly they are worried too ! The few parts it does have are quite cheap. Paddle flow switches are known for sticking and most manus left these behind years ago. The siemens gas valve can only be found elsewhere on a Ferrolli ! The fans in J&S Renos! So few parts, but cheap parts. They may be good but its too early to tell. Same could be said about the Logic which will be better than previous models thanks to generic proven hydraulics.
Your Protherm was manufactured in the Czech republic. The company is now owned by Vaillant and the Protherm factory has been converted to unvented cylinder manufacturing for vaillant, glowworm and SD. The boilers are usually, surprisingly reliable, but yours sounds like it may be handicapped by poor water quality. Its 24kw(80k btu).
The WB junior is a budget boiler and I would be tempted to give it a wide berth, having said that my sister had one for 5yrs from new without a hitch.

I agree with the hard water concern , but if you are a good engineer you test these things on qoutation, and doesn't matter what boiler you fit it states if above 200parts have you fit a scale reducer , If the water is really hard area you want to be fitting a proper softner in off the mains

 

[mickyg]

I agree with the hard water concern , but if you are a good engineer you test these things on qoutation, and doesn't matter what boiler you fit it states if above 200parts have you fit a scale reducer , If the water is really hard area you want to be fitting a proper softner in off the mains

Where I am no kind of protection works to stop the scale problem, apart from a softener. Obviously I can't go around quoting for a water softener on every job that would be ludicrous and I'd never get a job. Plate heat exchangers are very easy to descale. Particularly on vaillants i can be done in 30mins from start to finish and they tend to take 5-7yrs before this needs doing. I expect descaling an Intergas would be a much bigger undertaking and due to the design I expect it to scale up much quicker.

 

[transam]

I agree with the hard water concern , but if you are a good engineer you test these things on qoutation, and doesn't matter what boiler you fit it states if above 200parts have you fit a scale reducer , If the water is really hard area you want to be fitting a proper softner in off the mains

Where I am no kind of protection works to stop the scale problem, apart from a softener. Obviously I can't go around quoting for a water softener on every job that would be ludicrous and I'd never get a job. Plate heat exchangers are very easy to descale. Particularly on vaillants i can be done in 30mins from start to finish and they tend to take 5-7yrs before this needs doing. I expect descaling an Intergas would be a much bigger undertaking and due to the design I expect it to scale up much quicker.

Yep scaling up could well or will be a problem on these , were as u could just change a plate , on these u would need a flushing machine!

As I understand it they recommend a water softener as the only real way of preventing this , although u can use a water conditionar they recommend the phosphate crystal type one which may help so in some areas u would need to factor this into the install price along with TMV maybe ?? start quoting for water softeners whats the point in choosing an intergas ??

 

[roguetrader]

viessmann is still family owned.

 

[greg123]

This reminds me of the car forums, where you get bitter and agressive comments from BMW owners slating Mercs, and Merc owners slating BMW's as pieces of junk. As an engineer and having worked on and driven both, both make some nice driving cars and both have interesting technical and design points - as well as some awful points (rusty bodywork on post 2000 mercs, quick wear self destruct alloy v8's on late 90's bmw's are two examples).

I'm not looking to comment on cars, just saying it's really hard to take guidance when there are so many conflicting opinions. Surely there must be a way to look at the boilers with purely utilitarian engineering head on and agree what is, or isn't likely to last and be affordable to work on and repair.

I am looking for something new or used that is repairable, affordably and without being over complex. Yes I have a modest budget, but I won't write off the more expensive models if it's going to significantly change the likelyhood of me having trouble in the future.

I did like that idea of made in the uk but I won't narrow things too much.....

 

[ianniann]

24kW, adequate shower. Not great but probably all you need with most showers. You will probably notice the difference in winter. 28kW slightly better, but to be honest the difference isn't massive. Both a massively over-sized for a flat and even for your average 3-bed semi with reasonable insulation, so comments about getting one for a flat and one for a house are pretty dumb. Same shower, same boiler.

The easiest way for you to judge is really based on your current boiler. If it is old then find the actual output, or better yet compare the flow rates fort a given temperature rise. Decide if the current boiler gives an adequate shower or whether you need more power.

 

[transam]

BMW well there u go , asfaik they were involved in the casting process / intial manufacture of the intergas heat exchanger .

 

[greg123]

I don't need more power! Just reliability and fixability!

24kW, adequate shower. Not great but probably all you need with most showers. You will probably notice the difference in winter. 28kW slightly better, but to be honest the difference isn't massive. Both a massively over-sized for a flat and even for your average 3-bed semi with reasonable insulation, so comments about getting one for a flat and one for a house are pretty dumb. Same shower, same boiler.

The easiest way for you to judge is really based on your current boiler. If it is old then find the actual output, or better yet compare the flow rates fort a given temperature rise. Decide if the current boiler gives an adequate shower or whether you need more power.

 

[Corgigrouch]

I have a Worcester 30si and it is a good little boiler and would be happy to fit another one, it is a very early model and the expansion vessel will need replacing before Winter but other than that n probs. I have fitted a fair few Juniors and they have given very few problems. The main problem with the Juniors is that they can be a little awkward to work on and the boiler will have to come off the wall to replace the expansion vessel and to this end I prefer the Vaillants as everything comes out through the front of the boiler so easier to repair... Size wise 28kW is always better than 24kW...



What is going on here? I go on holiday for a few weeks and the darling of the heating industry (Intergas) falls from grace... Am I still ok to fit ATAG?..

 

[gasservice85]

the worcesters are largely trouble free, i fit 100's a year and have a 3% failure rate!
i have only fitted the 24i in flats. i would look at a 28 si if i was you, it gives you control of the hw temps. (cdi if you can stretch to it) min 28i if you have to

they are good boilers, get it installed by an accredited installer and get a 6 yr warranty which is completely quibble free from WB.

100s a year how many guys you got?
i install around 30-40 (vaillants) a year and have manus ringing me all the time trying to get my business if is was doing hundreds i doubt id ever be off the phone

with regards to op vaillants are easier to work on in the future than any other boiler IMO and i think unlike most manus there parts are not too overpriced