Wylex Upgrade 30A to 45A needed or not?

[GODLY]

Hi all,

I have been reading many threads here recently so decided to join to ask my troubling question.

I have recently bought a 2 bedroom flat and am refurbishing it throughout. I am not good with electrics and so i got my fuse box checked as i am installing a new kitchen.

According to the electrician, i need a fuse box upgrade if i am install a new oven and hob in the kitchen. Also i would need an extra dedicated wire running from the new fuse box to the kitchen.

Here is the picture of what i have currently..

Untitled

• GODLY
• 8 May 2008
• 2

Ok the breakdown as to how the fuses work in the flat from testing.

the 5A - Lights throughout
the 15A - No idea - guessing the hot water immersion heater.
30A - Dedicated Oven and Hob
30A - Sockets ring covering entire kitchen and living room
30A - Sockets ring covering rest of the flat ( 2 rooms + 2 bathrooms)

15A x 4 - 3 Storage heaters and may be hot water immersion heater.

Now from the above setup do you think i need to upgrade it to a newer high capacity CU to cater for newer appliances?

I am only replacing like for like appliances in the kitchen i.e oven, hob, extractor hood etc.

Plus i will be changing some ceiling lights to down spotlights with dimmers.. would this trip the 5A one?

Personally i dont think i need to upgrade but i am not sure about current legislations etc.

Please advice me..

Many thanks,

Nav

 

[Click-Sure]

Interesting what your electrician wants to run another circuit into the kitchen, did he/she tell you what it was for? It is best practice to have the kitchen socket outlets on a dedicated circuit, but by no means essensial.
What it could be is if your new oven and/or hob is going to be of a much higher wattage than the old one.
He/she has his/her reasons, if you don't understand why, a decent spark will have no problems explaining their reasoning.

Regarding a fuseboard / CU upgrade, I'd also advise a replacement, the gap around the fuse carriers (especially the heating circuits) is a bit wide for comfort (fingers, foreign conductive objects etc ) and you don't appear to have any RCD protection on any circuits, and it is highly advisable from a safety perspective to have RCD protection.

Adding another circuit to that board would in theory be possible, but it would be a struggle to obtain the parts for a circa late 70's early 80's board. Most electricians would have reservations signing off a new circuit that did not have any RCD protection present.

Hope that answers all your questions!

 

[JohnD]

H'mmm a double-decker metalclad Wylex Standard?

this would have been considered up-to-date in 1970, but things have moved on.

By the look of it you have electrical storage heating, is it on an off-peak tariff?

It was not designed for loads above 30A per circuit, and I can't see provision for a large Cooker circuit, so for that reason alone, I agree you need to upgrade, and this sounds like a good time to do it. You will need a certificate which your electrician can issue if he is a member of a self-Certification scheme (ask him which one, and what trade name he is registered under)

It is also impractical to add RCD protection to your old CU, which is nowadays considered essential for your safety.

 

[Click-Sure]

When's your birthday JohnD?

 

[JohnD]

tomorrow, if you're thinking of giving me a "how to type" book.

 

[GODLY]

H'mmm a double-decker metalclad Wylex Standard?

By the look of it you have electrical storage heating, is it on an off-peak tariff?

Yes it is on off peak economy 7.

How can you tell?

What sort of CU do you recommend? i.e how many ways and A's

Sorry but i have no idea it and am keen to learn before i invest.

Many thanks,

Nav

 

[Click-Sure]

I'd reccomend a similar 'double decker' but with split-load RCD at the top and RCD main switch at the bottom.

Most major quality CU manufacturers do them, but they are expensive and in some cases fitting 2 seperate CU's can work out cheaper, it a shame really, but its that old supply-demand chestnut!

Theres a fair few ways to tackle this and yuor electrician will no doubt have his favourite.

 

[JohnD]

Crabtree and MEM are very good makes, but your electrician will have his favourites.

MK are not as good as they used to be

Wylex is fair.

Get as many ways as you can think of circuits that you have now or might want in future, plus plenty of spare ones (a large CU is not much more expensive than a small one, as you are just paying for an empty plastic box and some fresh air)

If you are not short of a shilling you might consider RCBOs which give individual RCD protection for each circuit. However they cost about £25 extra per circuit

If your off-peak supply comes on only at night, it is easier to have a separate CU for it (dual tariff CUs are available, but they are not common and are rather expensive). However if all your power goes onto cheap rate at night, one large CU will be OK but you will need some kind of timer for the storage heaters. (I could tell becaise the heaters are on a separate bank, which is typical of a dual-tariff CU. Also you have a bank of 15A fuses, which is typical for night storage heaters)

p.s. ClickSure has been going to typing classes.

 

[GODLY]

I'd reccomend a similar 'double decker' but with split-load RCD at the top and RCD main switch at the bottom.

Thanks for the help.

I have not come across similar 'double decker' CU's while searching online.

Do i need one of these coz of how my storage heating is connected?

Or can i just get one split load single decker as you like?

sorry but i an naive about these things.

regards,

Nav

 

[GODLY]

Get as many ways as you can think of circuits that you have now or might want in future, plus plenty of spare ones (a large CU is not much more expensive than a small one, as you are just paying for an empty plastic box and some fresh air)

Does that mean i will have to re-wire parts of the flat?

i.e if i want to separate the kitchen and living room sockets into two different rings?

If your off-peak supply comes on only at night, it is easier to have a separate CU for it (dual tariff CUs are available, but they are not common and are rather expensive). However if all your power goes onto cheap rate at night, one large CU will be OK but you will need some kind of timer for the storage heaters.

I know that my off-peak supply comes at night and my storage heaters and the immersion heater switch on. I am not sure if the rest of the flat then runs on the lower tarriff..

 

[JohnD]

MEM make double-deckers but they are expensive and probably special order.

View media item 1090
They also make very big single-tariff CUs.

View media item 1091
So do Crabtree.

View media item 1092

 

[GODLY]

MEM make double-deckers but they are expensive and probably special order.

Well the Sparky who recommended an upgrade said it would cost me £1200 including the extra ring in the kitchen and parts.

Is this a fair price? I know i can CU quite cheap depending on type and make but is the labour that expensive? The distance from the CU to the kitchen is less than 5m in a straight line.

What do you think?

Nav

 

[Click-Sure]

Nice work JohnD, I can hardly see the join! Gooda love the MEM metalclad gear for the big stuff though, irony is I cant stand their socket outlets, FCU's etc.

OP:
Do you have a radio teleswitch connected to your meter, or possibly a big mechanical thing if you want to get really old fashoned.

Do your various storage heaters have timer clocks on them?

 

[Click-Sure]

GODLY, does the old 'london weighting' get out as far as your location? Its very hard to say if that is a good price without knowing the going rate for sparks in the area and exactly what kit he intends to use.

 

[JohnD]

no join, it's just that I've got a big one.

Haven't you?

It compensates for having a small p****