Yale 6400 install planning

[Tim2106]

New on here so please be gentle. Have looked through quite a few posts on here but still not clear about how to plan the install of my 6400 system.
It's going in a 2 bed terrace, front door opens into lounge directly, back door opens directly into kitchen diner.
Is there any reason I can't use a PIR in each room with the front room one set to entry, or should I be using door contacts as well? My idea is that each PIR can protect the door and window in the room it's in (?)
Was going to site control panel by front door for arming/disarming but, having read another thread on here, that seems to mean it would be vulnerable to being tampered with during entry delay - correct? If correct, I assume it needs hiding away somewhere, e.g. Cellar? A remote keypad by the front door would enable arming/disarming instead?
Another remote keypad upstairs will then enable home arming at night for downstairs, disabling the landing PIR. Does this sound reasonable or am I missing something really obvious?
In addition, I was hoping that being able to set multiple PINS would allow me to maintain "control" whilst giving a simple on/off code to tenants, but Yale helping tell me that all PINs give access to programming and therefore would allow tenants to reset my PIN and lock me out (unless I reset to factory default of course)! Anyone know a way round this?
Thanks in anticipation.

 

[chaindaisy]

Hi Tim,

I don't install or use Yale equipment myself, there are some good lads on the site who could give you some advice regarding the codes. There's always the chance that a wall mounted control panel can be damaged, tampered with, demolished and so on. But equally, provided you make it clear to the tenant that it is essentially their responsibility in some way, probably through the terms and conditions of tenancy, then you might get away with a wall mounting near the lounge main exit door.

Now regarding this idea that all control panels should be hidden, there is a lot to be said for it. But there are a few thousand panels currently sitting beside the main entrances to properties. And it needn't be that near if you are using a keyfob which operates the panel from some distance, say a few metres or so.

I like your idea of a remote keypad upstairs. You appear to have it sorted so we'll just confirm that your idea that a pir will protect doors and windows is essentially correct. However, I personally would prefer to back these up with a bit of perimeter protection with door contacts on the front and rear doors. Remember though, that you can always add devices to the Yale system, so you may want to forego some items initially.

Since you have decided on a keypad upstairs, then it makes sense as you say to hide the panel and simply install an extra keypad downstairs. With wireless, although these things shouldn't really bother you, it pays to take note of the wireless signal trouble spots. These can be radiators, boilers, foil backed plasterboard, heavy immovable furniture and so on. So try to site your panel centrally to all the devices without it being impeded by some highly metallic object.

Other than that, I reckon you've got it sorted.

Take Care

 

[mdf290]

Dont gve your tenants any codes but instead give them remote keyfobs.

The downside there of course is if they set off the alarm you would have to visit to reset the panel...hmmm how much?

 

[Tim2106]

Thanks for that Chaindaisy, much appreciated, especially the warning about wireless signal trouble spots - I'll test and check carefully before finally fixing everything in place! As I bought a 6400 kit that has two door contacts included it makes sense to use them. What had put me off was that I had read on another thread here that, even with the door contact set to entry, if the PIR in the front room picked up a person entering (even if the exit delay was going) then the alarm would sound, hence my thought of just using the PIR and setting it to entry. The instruction book however suggests that with a PIR set to burglar it WONT trigger during an entry delay period, so I should be able to use both in the same room. It does however say not to point the PIR at a protected entry point - I'm not sure why?
Can anyone confirm that a PIR set to burglar will not trigger an alarm during entry delay?
Many thanks mdf290 as well, your keyfob idea would work, but as you say I'd have to turn out every time they set the alarm off (and my guess is it would always be in the wee small hours!). I suppose I'll just have to let them have a code and, if they reprogram it, do a factory reset! Ah well, such is life. The alarm will of course be for their benefit when they are tenants and for my peace of mind when the property is vacant, so I'll just have to have one code that I change as soon as tenants leave (rather than always keeping 'my' code and only ever having to change the 'tenant' code)

 

[mdf290]

Hi your pir will not set off the alarm during countdown obviously only if the alarm gets the signal from the entry device first.
You can put a door contact and a pir in the same room as long as the pir is not facing towards the door contact.

It's apparently to do with two simultaneous signals being sent at the exact same time and each drowning each other out and the panel not registering either...
This was suggested by another forum member I have not seen Yales reasoning.

 

[chaindaisy]

Hi Tim,

When I mentioned that you would need to ask someone else about the more intricate side of Yale, it was MDF who I must have had in mind. Correct me if I'm wrong mdf, but I believe you work with them on a regular basis.

Regarding the passive pointing at a door contact, you have made a good comment there mdf, and to be honest I'm not sure why either. It may have something to do with occasional 'bursts' from the devices telling the panel that they are O.K. It's early in the day for me so excuse my lack of technical wording. I seem to recall asking you a few questions about Yale some time ago, correct me if I'm wrong, but I promised then that I would get round to looking at them. I'm still trying to find the time, but having said that, I fail to see that there is anything bad about them.

Tim, I'm going to leave you in this man's capable hands. He's more than qualified to sort out your queries.

 

[JohnD]

It's because the door sensor, when opened, sends a brief "I'm open" message with its unique serial number, which the panel interprets.

The message lasts less than a second, but if a PIR is pointing at the doorway, it may be trying to send the "movement detected" message, with its unique serial number, at the same time.

the messages are sent on the same frequency, so the panel may be unable to read the signals and serial numbers if they overlap. It will ignore any signals which do not include a serial number which it has already been taught to recognise (for example, if your neighbour happens to have a wireless device).

so the PIR should be positioned where someone will take a second or more to trigger it after opening the door. This should not be difficult.

because the signals are so brief, it is very uncommon for an interfering signal to occur at the same time that one of your sensors is triggered, unless you make the mistake of positioning them so they are both triggered at the same time.