Your opinion on the safety and legality of this board please.

[plugwash]

and if the prong had missed the clamp, where else could it be going?

With some designs of "cage clap" terminal, it is possible for the wire/pin to end up under the cage rather than inside it. Some designs of cage clamp have a guard to stop this from happening, but not all.

With a wire you will notice this immediately, the wire will simply fall out or at least pull out under even a gentle pull test, but with a busbar pin it can easily go unnoticed.

 

[SUNRAY]

That's what I said, in prose, in post #18

Yes you did, but then wrote:

It's impossible to be certain of anything from that photo, but it looks as if the busbar prong is in light with the blue neutral cable

Which I took to mean you now thought the busbar was in the neutral terminal

- and if the prong had missed the clamp, where else could it be going?

In reply to Chivers post which I quoted, I aired my concerns the 2 MCBs on the right might not be clamped onto the busbar if it had gone in behind the clamp.

IE:

and pushed the MCBs forwards.

EDIT Sorry Plugwash started writing this during TV news and got engrossed and didn't see your reply.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes you did, but then wrote:

It's impossible to be certain of anything from that photo, but it looks as if the busbar prong is in line with the blue neutral cable - and if the prong had missed the clamp, where else could it be going?

Which I took to mean you now thought the busbar was in the neutral terminal

No, I still believed that it was going into the '2' terminal (and the blue cable into the N one) but that the busbar lug going into the '2' terminal appeared to be (as best as one can tell from the photo) 'in line with' the blue going into the N terminal - suggesting that the lug of the busbar probably had not 'missed thee clamp'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I did look for BG consumer unit as could not quite work out how wired and found this

it seems to show no brown tails below the MCB's I note @SUNRAY picture but can't see why there would be a brown cable near the RCD, and @Lol999 did say some one got a shock requiring a hospital visit, and although the CU is not wired well, with joined bus bars, and MCB's not level so points to what @SUNRAY shows in his picture, can't see how that would result in a shock, maybe a fire, but not a shock.

As to question

Would this level of bodgery be sufficient to warrant a report to HSE?

when were I worked some one was sent to hospital due to a shock the NHS auto informed the HSE and we did get a visit. Oddly as the electrical engineer at the time I only found out after, and it did seem rather odd, seems a worker had stollen an extension lead from the fitters locker so he could run a fire, and the fitter got fined for bringing the extension lead into work, without bringing it to me to PAT test, which seemed wrong some how, as he was clearly not using it as the guy took it from his locker.

I did not get fined, but given a telling off as they found my office not locked. I had not considered the idea people would take things without asking.

I must admit I don't always follow rules to the letter, and have turned a blind eye at times, but where I volunteer now I found a faulty grinder which needed part we had not got to repair it, so needed to go into quarantine, and it seems no system was in place to quarantine items.

However in this case the microwave should be quarantined and the socket locked off until tested, with the MCB locks I use you could not remove the CU front without removing the lock. If anyone who did not have their qualifications logged with the firm was found to have removed the front cover off an CU that would be a dismissal case, until they had copies of my qualifications I was not permitted to touch anything electrical.

The problem is once HSE arrive they also look at other things, I was involved in the Safety walk, and guards were also looked at, and I caught one daft twit walking the pearling to put in a cable, I throw him off site, seems the HSE guy also saw and asked me what I had done, and said good job or I would have taken him to court if I had got there first.

Lucky only happened once to me, I was super careful after that.

 

[JohnW2]

With some designs of "cage clap" terminal, it is possible for the wire/pin to end up under the cage rather than inside it. Some designs of cage clamp have a guard to stop this from happening, but not all. .... With a wire you will notice this immediately, the wire will simply fall out or at least pull out under even a gentle pull test, but with a busbar pin it can easily go unnoticed.

Yes, I realise all that but perhaps I was not clear enough, since my intended point really was that there was nothing in the (very photograph (which has very confusing perspective), per se, which would lead us to suspect that, in this case, the lug was not in the 'cage' (if it is a 'cage'-type terminal - and that, for what it'sworth, it at least seemed to be in-line with the adjacent cable termination.

 

[SUNRAY]

I did look for BG consumer unit as could not quite work out how wired and found this View attachment 333613it seems to show no brown tails below the MCB's I note @SUNRAY picture but can't see why there would be a brown cable near the RCD, and @Lol999 did say some one got a shock requiring a hospital visit, and although the CU is not wired well, with joined bus bars, and MCB's not level so points to what @SUNRAY shows in his picture, can't see how that would result in a shock, maybe a fire, but not a shock.

My shetch shows a clamp holding a copper busbar (brown) against a brass tab (orange) on the right but missing the clamp on left.

 

[Lol999]

Okay. Time to clarify some things, and thanks to everyone who has contributed so far.
The person involved is a close relative, it's their place of employment, and it's they who got a nasty shock off a microwave which required hospital visit. Can't rely on them informing HSE - beyond incompetent.
My relative was pressurised to not say anything to anyone about the shock, nor a more serious fall caused by equipment blocking a stairway, which resulted in serious injury.
The cabinet is as opened by the branch manager and was doing a bit of sparking apparently.
The accident was not reported by the company. They do not have an accident reporting protocol nor are they recorded in house.
Whilst not a legal requirment as I understand it there is NO PAT testing carried out or other safety checks on equipment.
They are an absolute bunch of cowboys and this could be part of a bigger legal case we are preparing, hence the questions on reporting etc.
Thanks.

 

[RandomGrinch]

They are an absolute bunch of cowboys and this could be part of a bigger legal case we are preparing,

If what you say is true, this company needs to be reported to HSE now, for the sake of its workers and any visitors to the premises.
Any potential legal action should take second place.

Edit:
I would also add, that posting on an open forum, pictures that may be used as evidence for litigation, may not be a good idea.

 

[Lol999]

If what you say is true, this company needs to be reported to HSE now, for the sake of its workers and any visitors to the premises.
Any potential legal action should take second place.

Edit:
I would also add, that posting on an open forum, pictures that may be used as evidence for litigation, may not be a good idea.

I hear you, and thanks for the advice. Not being an electrician I had limited access to those in the know, hence the post here.
Wheels are set in motion as we speak.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed.
Mods please close the post.

 

[Murdochcat]

I hear you, and thanks for the advice. Not being an electrician I had limited access to those in the know, hence the post here.
Wheels are set in motion as we speak.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed.
Mods please close the post.

What you need is a decent EICR , done properly and thoroughly.

Then you’ll have a far better idea than random guesses off the internet

 

[Lol999]

What you need is a decent EICR , done properly and thoroughly.

Then you’ll have a far better idea than random guesses off the internet

It's all going to the HSE, let them deal with it.

 

[Murdochcat]

It's all going to the HSE, let them deal with it.

Let’s hope the HSE act quickly or the employer could fix any issues, assuming there are any

As for the bus bar cover - that’s not an issue as you should always turn off the board before removing the cover

 

[plugwash]

can't see why there would be a brown cable near the RCD,

I would guess it's a dual-rcd board with no surge protection or non-rcd ways such that the main switch is immediately to the right of the right hand RCD.

 

[SUNRAY]

I would guess it's a dual-rcd board with no surge protection or non-rcd ways such that the main switch is immediately to the right of the right hand RCD.

I feel that's exactly what is there, the brown load side wire and the live/line grey tail are both visible.