What formal procedure for changing a consumer unit?

Polly1 · 7 Feb 2006

I've recently completed the EAL Intermediate Certificate for Domestic Installers.

The work I want to do doesn't seem to justify me joining the NIC or other organisation as I've got 5 or 6 jobs in total to do on my own places. All I want to do is some bonding upgrades and changing some consumer units to new split load units to incorporate an RCD for sockets in the houses concerned.

However I'm confused by what procedures are required for me to do this legally without any comeback to me later on. As far as I understand, changing a consumer unit triggers a Periodic Report and not an Installation Certificate. Once the work is done, I want to get a periodic done by an NIC guy anyway for my insurance company.

So it seems to me, that I should just go ahead, change the consumer unit & add the bonding (which is very minor), then get the NIC guy round ASAP. Job done.

However, I'm wondering whether I should be informing the council first, then doing my own periodic the moment the consumer unit is in. This involves £140 additional expense to inform the council building control section, which I don't want to do unless it's necessary. When I spoke to the council, they seemed as confused as me & obviously perfectly happy to take my money if I want.

What do you people say to this? Thanks.

A second question. How much do you reckon the job is worth (for labour only - I supply the parts) if I ask the NIC guy to do it & supply a periodic report at the end of the job?

ban-all-sheds · 7 Feb 2006

Polly1 said:
What do you people say to this?

I say that if you don't know what certificate to issue on change of a CU then you should go on that training course again, or ask for your money back....

Qedelec · 7 Feb 2006

Polly1 said:
I've recently completed the EAL Intermediate Certificate for Domestic Installers.

Commendable

Polly1 said:
The work I want to do doesn't seem to justify me joining the NIC or other organisation as I've got 5 or 6 jobs in total to do on my own places. All I want to do is some bonding upgrades and changing some consumer units to new split load units to incorporate an RCD for sockets in the houses concerned.

Agreed

Polly1 said:
However I'm confused by what procedures are required for me to do this legally without any comeback to me later on. As far as I understand, changing a consumer unit triggers a Periodic Report and not an Installation Certificate.?

Who told you that, a consumer unit change requires an Electrical Installation Certificate

Polly1 said:
Once the work is done, I want to get a periodic done by an NIC guy anyway for my insurance company.

No need for a PIR if you have EIC

Polly1 said:
So it seems to me, that I should just go ahead, change the consumer unit & add the bonding (which is very minor), then get the NIC guy round ASAP. Job done.

No Approved Contractor will issue a EIC for your work if you don't work for them.

Polly1 said:
However, I'm wondering whether I should be informing the council first, then doing my own periodic the moment the consumer unit is in. This involves £140 additional expense to inform the council building control section, which I don't want to do unless it's necessary. When I spoke to the council, they seemed as confused as me & obviously perfectly happy to take my money if I want.

What do you people say to this? Thanks.

A second question. How much do you reckon the job is worth (for labour only - I supply the parts) if I ask the NIC guy to do it & supply a periodic report at the end of the job?

Ring an electrician and ask them if they are prepared to certify your work.

Polly1 · 7 Feb 2006

Thanks for the replies. It was the lecturers at the course who told me a new consumer unit triggers a periodic report.

I do know a guy who is registered with NIC and has certified some work for me before, but he reckoned he wasn't the right man for periodic reports, so I haven't considered calling him for this.

So are you sure an EIC is all that's needed for this job? I can see that a periodic is good, as each circuit is listed & the test results for each circuit can be set out in a clear way. But I guess if an EIC is all that's needed, I can get him to certify for less than the charge to pay the councils building control cost.

NuttallsSpark · 7 Feb 2006

Polly1 said:
So are you sure an EIC is all that's needed for this job? I can see that a periodic is good, as each circuit is listed & the test results for each circuit can be set out in a clear way. But I guess if an EIC is all that's needed.

On a Periodic Inspection Report only a "Sample" of circuits are tested at the discretion of the tester, depending on a few things.

A electrical Installation Certificate will have ALL circuits listed AND tested, so therefore its much better than a P.I.R

PompeySparks · 7 Feb 2006

You must also consider whether the existing circuits are in a satisfactory state for a new CU - e.g. the very small (say 100mA) neutral to earth leakage that had no effect on your rewirable fuses now instantly trips your new, shiny RCD!

Always insulation resistance test all existing circuits before you even consider taking the old fuseboard out!

Polly1 · 7 Feb 2006

PompeySparks said:
You must also consider whether the existing circuits are in a satisfactory state for a new CU - e.g. the very small (say 100mA) neutral to earth leakage that had no effect on your rewirable fuses now instantly trips your new, shiny RCD!

Always insulation resistance test all existing circuits before you even consider taking the old fuseboard out!

The fuseboards have MCB's, but no RCD, so I believe there won't be a change. Do you agree?

colport27 · 7 Feb 2006

All circuits have to be tested when a new DB is put it........

May seem daft, but if someboady requests a periodic inspection of their property, and one of the results of the inspection is that the DB requires upgrading..........the DB gets replaced..........you then have to retest the installation again.

ban-all-sheds · 7 Feb 2006

Polly1 said:
So are you sure an EIC is all that's needed for this job? I can see that a periodic is good, as each circuit is listed & the test results for each circuit can be set out in a clear way.

All that's needed? Have you ever looked at what you have to record on an EIC?

You've passed your EAL course - do you also have 2381?

But I guess if an EIC is all that's needed, I can get him to certify for less than the charge to pay the councils building control cost.

You still have to notify LABC, in advance, and you still have to pay their fee. Your friend, if he's prepared to do it (which he won't if he believes NICEIC's lies) will issue you an EIC or PIR, which certifies the electrics with respect to compliance with BS 7671.

This is not the same as certifying compliance with the Building Regulations - with them nobody can certify another person's work as compliant except a Building Inspector.

Polly1 said:
PompeySparks said:

You must also consider whether the existing circuits are in a satisfactory state for a new CU - e.g. the very small (say 100mA) neutral to earth leakage that had no effect on your rewirable fuses now instantly trips your new, shiny RCD!

Always insulation resistance test all existing circuits before you even consider taking the old fuseboard out!

Click to expand...

The fuseboards have MCB's, but no RCD, so I believe there won't be a change. Do you agree?

But surely the new ones will have one???

Also, you mention your insurance company wanting a PIR from a NICEIC electrician - are you sure it's OK for you to be doing the work?

ebee · 7 Feb 2006

I think you missed the whole point.
A CU change triggers a periodic.
A periodic (full periodic on all circuits fed) should inform you of any defects with the existing wiring (apart from hidden cables but what else can you reasonably do?). BEFORE you do the change.
Armed with that information then a decision to correct and then replace CU.
CU will generate an Electrical Instalation Certificate (When you change CU you then take responsibillity for all circuits it supplies).
So changing a CU is not the little job most think it is

Polly1 · 7 Feb 2006

ban-all-sheds said:
Polly1 said:

So are you sure an EIC is all that's needed for this job? I can see that a periodic is good, as each circuit is listed & the test results for each circuit can be set out in a clear way.

Click to expand...

All that's needed? Have you ever looked at what you have to record on an EIC?

You've passed your EAL course - do you also have 2381?

But I guess if an EIC is all that's needed, I can get him to certify for less than the charge to pay the councils building control cost.

Click to expand...

You still have to notify LABC, in advance, and you still have to pay their fee. Your friend, if he's prepared to do it (which he won't if he believes NICEIC's lies) will issue you an EIC or PIR, which certifies the electrics with respect to compliance with BS 7671.

This is not the same as certifying compliance with the Building Regulations - with them nobody can certify another person's work as compliant except a Building Inspector.

Polly1 said:

PompeySparks said:

You must also consider whether the existing circuits are in a satisfactory state for a new CU - e.g. the very small (say 100mA) neutral to earth leakage that had no effect on your rewirable fuses now instantly trips your new, shiny RCD!

Always insulation resistance test all existing circuits before you even consider taking the old fuseboard out!

Click to expand...

The fuseboards have MCB's, but no RCD, so I believe there won't be a change. Do you agree?

Click to expand...

But surely the new ones will have one???

Also, you mention your insurance company wanting a PIR from a NICEIC electrician - are you sure it's OK for you to be doing the work?

So what would be the point of me hiring someone to certify the installation? My understanding is that my EAL certificate shows me to be competent, but that because I'm not registered with NIC or similar, I still need to inform building control. So my understanding then is that building control will accept my testing and documentation supported by my domestic installers certificate. Don't you agree?

I phoned the council to get clarification on this & they seemed to agree. But like I said earlier, they seemed to be confused themselves.

The lecturers at my course said that all the requirement was, is to be competent, therefore their course makes me competent. But to also be able to self-certify & not inform the council prior to work being done, you had to be registered with the NIC or similar.

ban-all-sheds · 7 Feb 2006

Polly1 said:
So what would be the point of me hiring someone to certify the installation?

Depends at whose behest. LABC or insurer?

My understanding is that my EAL certificate shows me to be competent,

Yes, well...

but that because I'm not registered with NIC or similar, I still need to inform building control.

Yes.

So my understanding then is that building control will accept my testing and documentation supported by my domestic installers certificate.

That's up to them.

The lecturers at my course said that all the requirement was, is to be competent, therefore their course makes me competent.

Yes, well...

But to also be able to self-certify & not inform the council prior to work being done, you had to be registered with the NIC or similar.

Yes.

Polly1 · 7 Feb 2006

So if I'm reading you right - my understanding is correct, but the LABC may throw a few spanners in my spokes?

viewer · 8 Feb 2006

Just to say, "Thank you" to Polly1 and all others for working through this topic. I too took EAL a year ago just so that I could work on my own small house. We students were uncomfortable with the information given (same as that to Polly1) as it seemed to be a too literal interpretation of wording relating to what comprised a circuit. Your answers make electrical and legal sense. Thanks again.
V

pdcelec · 8 Feb 2006

Do you own your own test equipment?

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What formal procedure for changing a consumer unit?

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