whats the deal with insulating around downlights?

Have just laid insulation in my loft and built some frames (about 6 in x 6 in) to fit around downlights to keep the inulation at bay.
Now I dont use the lights a great deal, but wondered about heat loss from the room below through the fittings - or would this be negligable?
Should I put lids over the light fittings? I could buy some of those fire proof hoods? But its still a gap in the insulation...
or am I just making a rod for my own back?

Cheers

Neil

I think its safe to put a lid over the downlights, and lay insulation over the top. Only problem then is heat build-up around the lamps, causing premature failure of the lamps. And its not safe to use "I dont use the lamps a great deal" as an excuse not to install them properly

But it is ok to put a cover over the top.

fire hoods aren't fire proof. They are used to maintain the fire rating of a fire rated ceiling, which, unless you live in a flat, you are unlikely to have, and are therefore a waste of money, unless you live in a flat, or a very unusual house.

Cheers crafty

Thats great - what I wanted confirming really.

Dont fret - theyre well installed - I was more concerned about my efforts to insulate the roof being cancelled out by the holes cut in the ceiling for the downlights!

Only put them in initially because my girlfriend has a pathological hatred for pendants.

neilfitzgerald said:

Only put them in initially because my girlfriend has a pathological hatred for pendants.

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hasn't she heard of normal, multiple lamp ceiling lights - they have a wide selection in argos - maybe you should get her a catalogue they come in halogen variety too!

crafty1289 said:

unless you live in a flat, you are unlikely to have, and are therefore a waste of money, unless you live in a flat, or a very unusual house.

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dont you mean

'if you live in a very unusal house.....you might not need hoods but if you live in a normal house with a normal ceiling and floor then you do need them (but not if the lights are in the ceiling to the roof space)'

but if you didnt mean that sorry (but thats what you should mean cos all floors in houses are fire resistant (but flats even more so))

The holes in the insulation will make the insulation considerably less effective cos the heat will leak out the cold uninsulated bits.

BOB NUTS said:

but if you didnt mean that sorry (but thats what you should mean cos all floors in houses are fire resistant (but flats even more so))

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The fire rating of ceilings in flats is very important to maintain. But I thought the only fire rated ceilings in a normal house were garage ceilings . . . Therefore integral garages also have to be fitted with fire rated doors. Where's the fire rated door between the upstairs and downstairs of my house? No house i've ever been in has had a fire rated door apart from the garage. No point having fire ceilings if you're not having fire doors with closers in my opinion. If i was wrong, I apologise, but I dont see the logic of having one without the other.

The floors have 30mins fire resistance because if theres a fire downstairs you dont want the floor to burn through or drop away in just a few minutes or youll go from a nice cosy sleep to dropping into the middle of a roaring 600 centigrade house fire.

when the plasterboard is penetrated by downlights the fire resistance is messed up

its all in the building regs approved document B

to be fair your not the first person (spark or otherwise) who thinks that fire hoods are only needed in flats.

for those on part p schemes - does the part p registration process inform you of regs like this?

BOB NUTS said:

The floors have 30mins fire resistance because if theres a fire downstairs you dont want the floor to burn through or drop away in just a few minutes or youll go from a nice cosy sleep to dropping into the middle of a roaring 600 centigrade house fire.

when the plasterboard is penetrated by downlights the fire resistance is messed up

its all in the building regs approved document B

to be fair your not the first person (spark or otherwise) who thinks that fire hoods are only needed in flats.

for those on part p schemes - does the part p registration process inform you of regs like this?

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Just out of intrest, which section of Part B did you read this in?

What about that bloody great hole known as a stairway

AFAIK a domestic house is classed as one fire zone, except for the garage as crafty says, not 100% on this though

Bobnuts appears to be talking out of his ar*e.

The BRE have conducted extensive tests and conclude that the 30-minute standard fire barrier rating of plasterboard ceilings is not compromised by downlights. In other words, as far as preventing spread of fire in a single dwelling is concerned, you can f*ck up your ceilings as much as you like. (Let's face it, you ain't gonna get a bigger fire-propagating orifice than a stairwell, are you?)

Having said that, downlighters are the work of the devil and should be resisted at all costs, regardless of what the missus wants.

crafty1289 said:

No house i've ever been in has had a fire rated door apart from the garage.

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Mine has.

Because it's a 3-storey house.

I don't know what the intermediate ceilings are like because I don't go through them as often.

But I have got those horrible downlights (not installed by me) in the middle floor. They'll be out of fashion soon, like stone cladding and Artex.

Wooaahhh!!!!! Steady guys

some people just dont like the hearing the truth (out of my arse or not dingbat - its true! )

dingbat appears to dress up in womens underwear at the weekend - i've not checked this out but it might be true so surely its worth saying


Lots of 'AFAIK' and 'appears to be talking out of his a**e' being spouted but I'm just telling you what the regulations say - if you dont like it or disagree with them then take it up with the guys who write them and get them through parliment - your MP. Pick up part B and find table A1 and as you can see Floors in 2 storey dwellings require fire resistance

As for the stairs it does seem like a bit of an anomaly but think about it -

the floor needs to stay in place if there is a fire in the room below. This is so the people dont drop onto the fire because of the floor collapsing or so the fire doesn't burn through the floor into the room above too quickly. This time period is to give the people in the house either to become aware of the fire and escape or be rescued.

it doesn't stop the travel of the fire up the staircase - but if the fire travels up the staircase its not impairing the strength of the floor and thats what we are talking about.

if there is a fire in a downstairs room your not going to stand in the hallway - either you'll go down the stairs and out or if the stair is smoke logged you'll retreat to a bedroom and out a window or wait to be rescued by the fire brigade

hallways and stairwells are considered (rightly or wrongly) to be lower risk areas for an accidental fire to start (normally don't contain electrical kit, much furnishing, not likely to have someone fall asleep smoking in etc)

I've not seen the BRE reports, they sound interesting - what are there titles/references I have seen other test reports which dictate the floor construction, panel size, downlighter spacings etc - rarely replicated on site due to downlighter spacings and joist sizes & certainly didnt say 'you can f*ck up your ceilings as much as you like' .

You can argue out the reasoning behind it but to say that normal 2 storey houses dont need fire resistant floors under the regulations is wrong. Its a common misconception spread by people who havent read the regs or listen to those who spout this twaddle.

P.S. the hoods are also needed for sound resistance reasons - so if you exhaust the fire resistance reasons, move onto the sound resistance

Would it be fair to say it all really depends on the layout of the house and the way it's been built?