Help with wiring a light!

broker81 · 28 Aug 2006

Hi all,

Glad to be here and hope someone can help me with this wee small problem i am having!

I have removed the light in my living room ceiling (x2) and discovered that they run on a loop system (discovered this after i had removed the second light).

Obviously i didn't take note of the previous wiring which was really stupid i know but heh, what's done is done.

The problem i have now is i can't get them to work again. When i re0connect them using some of the diagrams i came across, one light stays on constantly and the other (the one with the main loop) doesn't work at all.

The lights work off a switch and this operates the kitchen light as well, that works fine but the living room one does not.

I have three black wires, three red wires, one black and red and one red with a red sleeve. What am i doing wrong?

Is there some way to tell what the switch wire is? am i connecting them up right.

I connected the black and red to live, the other wire from this went to the loop. The other reds to the loop, the blacks to neautral and earthed. This is according to the diagrams but i am at loss where to put the red with red sleeving to? I have tried every combo but no joy.

Any ideas guys or should i just call an electrician in?

Many thanks

John

didthathurt · 28 Aug 2006

A little more info pls.

When you say these 3 lights work off one switch, do you mean one way of a switch (ie only one rocker on the plate) or is there more than one way on the switch?

Do you have the same number of wires in each light fitting? Glance at the back of the switch and post what wires you see going into which terminals.

There are some good diagrams showing lighting circuits on the site, have a look at those also and get back.

didthathurt · 28 Aug 2006

here, in fact, and in "Sticky" at the top of the page.
_______________________
lynda, moderator

edited to correctly insert picture

didthathurt, use the

button to see how I did it

broker81 · 29 Aug 2006

didthathurt said:
A little more info pls.

When you say these 3 lights work off one switch, do you mean one way of a switch (ie only one rocker on the plate) or is there more than one way on the switch?

The three lights are operated from a double dimmer sitch, the two living room ones of the one switch and the kitchen lght off the other.

Do you have the same number of wires in each light fitting? Glance at the back of the switch and post what wires you see going into which terminals.

There are two wires, a red and black in one fitting of the light in the living room and the other fitting in the living room has many reds and blacks. I have checked the back of the switch and they both have one black and red sheath and one red to each love and neautral point of the switches, four in total.

There are some good diagrams showing lighting circuits on the site, have a look at those also and get back.

I have tried to wire up using the diagrams and no luch, when i wire them up one is steadily on all the tome and the other is not. The kitchen light from the same switch works though.

The one wire i don't know where to put is the red and red sheath with a black wire, what is this for? Is this something to do with the loop?

Many thanks for your help.

John

securespark · 29 Aug 2006

That is the switch cable.....one side to the live loop, the other to the live side of the lamp...

Just reread your post.. red & red with black wire?

Can you post piccy?

broker81 · 30 Aug 2006

securespark said:
That is the switch cable.....one side to the live loop, the other to the live side of the lamp...

Just reread your post.. red & red with black wire?

Can you post piccy?

Hi buddy

Thanks for the reply, i can't post a pic as i ain't got a camera at the moment.

If i explain it again perhaps you will understand.

I have the following wires:

3 black
3 red
1 black with red sheath (think this is the switch)
1 red with red sheath

I have wired it up as follows:

Back and red sheath connected to brown live of light
other red from this wire to loop
2 reds to loop
3 blacks to blue neautral of light
The other one, the red with red sheath and black i am at a loss as to where to put.

I think i have connected all the others up right according to the various diagrams but there are no diagrams with red and red sheath.

Does this ring any bells?

the loop is connected to 2 living room lights from the one switch, one kitchen light from the one switch and one hall light from another switch but i think this is in the loop as it doesn't work sometimes when i re configure the wiring.

For noting there is also an extractor fan in the kitchen which i think is connected to it as well and an electric smoke alarm but the smoke alarm is on a different fuse in the box.

Thanks for your help again.

John

broker81 · 1 Sep 2006

Hi all

Hoping that someone can still help me with this, still not fixed, any ideas guys.

John

securespark · 1 Sep 2006

I'm still having trouble with your wording, sorry!

Have you got a single wire with black inner insulation & red outer insulation? Then a single wire with red inner insulation & red outer insulation?

AFAICT, this is not a standard colour combo. However, the colours are immaterial, it's what they do that's important.

You need to help us to help you by using a multimeter to discover which wires are lives, switchwires & neutrals.

fireman22 · 1 Sep 2006

if the three red/blacks are all mains pairs, then three blacks to neutral, three reds with red/red sleeve in centre loop terminals and lastly black/red sleeve to switched live terminal

broker81 · 1 Sep 2006

securespark said:
i'm still having trouble with your wording, sorry!

Have you got a single wire with black inner insulation & red outer insulation? Then a single wire with red inner insulation & red outer insulation?

I have the Black Inner and red outer, this has a black connected to the same wire, i assume this is the live switch. I know where all the wires go appart from the one that has a red and red outer and a black.

I have connected this up in many ways but no joy. I think i will invest in a multimeter and then report back.

Thanks for all your help guys. It is rather difficult to understand this if you don't know what you are doing and difficult for you guys if you can see the wires, in a picture.

Thanks again and i will report back.

John

securespark · 1 Sep 2006

broker81 said:
I think i will invest in a multimeter and then report back.

No offence, John, but:

MEMO TO EVERYONE:

DO NOT ATTEMPT
ELECTRICAL WORK
WITHOUT A MULTIMETER!

broker81 · 2 Sep 2006

Thanks Buddy for the advice, went and had a loo at the Multimeters and they are as confusing as this wiring i have, i wouldn't know where to start with one.

I read the instructions and they might as well have been in German. Any pointers on how to use one?

I don't mind spending the £15 as i am sure it is a lot cheaper than getting an electrician but don't want to fork it out for nothing.

Many thanks

John

JohnD · 2 Sep 2006

first job is to find out which is the incoming supply to your ceiling rose.

This is the only one that will have 220v between the red and the black (you will find an "A.C Volts setting on your meter).

Mark the "supply" cable so that you do not forget which it is, then turn off the circuit power. Test between reds and lack again to verify that it is now safe. Then turn the power back on, and test again, then off again, and retest. This is to test that your meter is still working correctly in indicating a safe circuit, as well as verifying that you are turning off the correct circuit.

Next job is to verify which is the switch cable. With the circuit off and no voltage on any wires. Then sellect a continuity or a low ohms setting on your meter. If you put this across the red and black, you should find it changes from open circuit to very low resistance (or continuity) when you turn the switch from off to on. That means it is the switch cable.

Mark the "switch" cable too.

You should find that none of the other cables have any voltage on them at anty time. They may be open circuit or not depending on whether they have bulbs or fans fitted and switches in the "on" position.

Marking cables can be done with a permanent marker, either on the cable sheath, or on a bit of white (not coloured) tape.

Once you have identified the Supply and the Switch cables come back, it will be easy. (I will be away for a couple of days but someone else will know).

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Help with wiring a light!

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