Are we reading the same OP? Eric said that the plug was marked 5A, and explicitly stated that it said nothing about fuse rating:
Kind Regards, John
5A BS 1363 plug?
- Thread starter ericmark
- Start date
Kind Regards, John
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Eh? Not only did I obviously read the OP at the very start, but I actually quoted the relevant part in the third post in this thread. Your point therefore escapes me!Great, finally got you to read the actual post
Kind Regards, John
Right, now I have my (well, it's mine now I've retired )BS 1363 with me; the final paragraph of 12.4 states: "For non-rewireable plugs the current rating of the fuse link shall not exceed the value given in Table 2 for the appropriate size of the flexible cord". Table 2 also gives the test currents with respect to the size of flexible cord; these are 3.5A (0,75mm2), 7A (0,75mm2), 11A (1 or 0,75mm2 if non-rewireable and <2m long), 14A (1,25mm2), 14A (1.5mm2). Fuse ratings are respectively 3A(5A allowed when a non-rewireable plug is for use with equipment having a high inrush), 13A, 13A, 13A, 13A. Rated currents are 3, 6, 10, 13, 13.
The apparet inconsistecy with the rating of the plug at the other end is not within the Scope of 1363 but would be covered by IEC (or BS EN) 60799.
)BS 1363 with me; the final paragraph of 12.4 states: "For non-rewireable plugs the current rating of the fuse link shall not exceed the value given in Table 2 for the appropriate size of the flexible cord". Table 2 also gives the test currents with respect to the size of flexible cord; these are 3.5A (0,75mm2), 7A (0,75mm2), 11A (1 or 0,75mm2 if non-rewireable and <2m long), 14A (1,25mm2), 14A (1.5mm2). Fuse ratings are respectively 3A(5A allowed when a non-rewireable plug is for use with equipment having a high inrush), 13A, 13A, 13A, 13A. Rated currents are 3, 6, 10, 13, 13.The apparet inconsistecy with the rating of the plug at the other end is not within the Scope of 1363 but would be covered by IEC (or BS EN) 60799.
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Well, yes, but that really just describing the Table 2 which BAS posted here yesterday - except that, in contrast with what BAS said, it now seems that the fuse ratings given in Table 2 are not only for the tests, but also represent the maximum permissible fuse size for in-service use. Hence, that means that (per your figures above) one is permitted to use 13A fuses for moulded cables 'rated' (in Table 2 of BS1363, which is consistent with the BS7671 CCCs for flex) at 6A (0.75mm² flex) and 10A (1.0mm² flex) - which seems a little odd, dosn't it?Right, now I have my (well, it's mine now I've retired
Kind Regards, John
Hadn't noticed BAS had posted (the previous version of) Table 2 in the other thread. There are now some extra options.
The fuse currents are not the test currents, not sure why you say that. Yes, it does appear that a plug and cord having a rated current of 6A or 10A can be protected by a 13A fuse.
The fuse currents are not the test currents, not sure why you say that. Yes, it does appear that a plug and cord having a rated current of 6A or 10A can be protected by a 13A fuse.
I say that because, since I was thinking otherwise, when I questioned why that table seemed to suggest that one could protect 0.75 or 1.0mm² cables with a 13A fuse, BAS said that the tabulation was not of permitted in-service fuse ratings but, rather, of fuses to be used for the tests!
Indeed - and if, as you are saying, those 'permitted fuse ratings'do relate to in-service use (not just tests), I remain interested to hear an 'explanation'
Kind Regards, John
I don't have the version of BS1363 that BAS has, but it appears he was wrong. The test currents are 3,5; 7; 11; 14; 14A, none of which are available fuse ratings.
The protection given by a 13 A fuse to 6A and 10A rated flexible cords is of course fault protection, not overload protection.
The protection given by a 13 A fuse to 6A and 10A rated flexible cords is of course fault protection, not overload protection.
I don't think he was wrong in terms of the version of Table 2 he posted. As you can see, the test currents in that table were, indeed, also given as 3.5, 7, 11 14 & 14A, but there was an additional colum for 'fuse rating', containing 3(5), 13, 13, 13 & 13A, and the title of that Table was "....and fuse rating ... for flexing and cord grip tests .... "
Who/what said that? Given that there is no telling what sort of load these leads may be plugged into (hence whether or not the load is 'likley to create an overload') there surely must be a requirement for overload, as well as fault,protection, mustn't there?
Kind Regards, John
There's an implicit comma after "fuse rating". The fuse rating is not relevant to the test current.
John, you have often correctly stated that fuses can carry currents considerably greater than their rating for appreciable periods of time, so they do not provide protection against overloads.
John, you have often correctly stated that fuses can carry currents considerably greater than their rating for appreciable periods of time, so they do not provide protection against overloads.
You may be right - but, on this occasion, I don't think I can blame BAS for his interpretation, given that the 'implicit comma' was not explicit
Is the title clearer (less ambiguous) in the new version?That's obviously true of any OPD, but you are surely not saying that no OPD provides overload protection, are you? As we've also discussed many times, the 'CCC' tables we use appear to take into account the overload characteristics of a cable in relation to the OPD protecting it - e.g. if the tabulated CCC of a cable is, say, 20A, that means that it is considered that it can safely carry 29A for an hour, and therefore is adequately protected by a B20 MCB.
In any other context, having a 0.75mm² or 1.0mm² flex protected by a 13A fuse would not be considered acceptable (per BS7671) - so I wonder why (assuming your interpretation is correct), it's different for these moulded plugs/leads.
Kind Regards, John
The title is identical in the current version, i.e. it is equally unambiguous.
I suppose that "equally unambiguous" does not preclude their being equally ambiguous
Kind Regards, John
About what?
I know.
My version says
For non-rewireable accessories the current rating of
the fuse-link shall be appropriate to the attached
flexible cord (see Table 2).
Interesting - given that the entries in the CSA and 'fuse rating' columns in that Table 2 seem to indicate fuse ratings which appear not to be "appropriate to the attached flexible cord" in the case of 0,75mm² and 1.0mm² cables!
Kind Regards, John
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