British Jewish women trapped

So you don't claim that a Muslim has ever asked you to stop gambling or drinking. Do you know anyone who has been approached by a Muslim seeking to persuade them? Regularly?

Do you think that Christians and Jews should be allowed to take time off work for religious observance?

Are you a Presbyterian?
 
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So you don't claim that a Muslim has ever asked you to stop gambling or drinking. Do you know anyone who has been approached by a Muslim seeking to persuade them?
I have been asked. I have been approached. More than once.
 
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That's interesting.

were you in the vicinity of a betting shop, casino or bar?
 
No. I was doing some gardening at home on one occasion, and at work having a cup of tea on another.
 
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So was it door-to-door evangelists, like Jehova's Witnesses or Mormons?

Was there any reason to suppose you were a drinker or gambler?
 
So was it door-to-door evangelists, like Jehova's Witnesses or Mormons?

Was there any reason to suppose you were a drinker or gambler?
No. One of my neighbours with a friend of his in the first case and a supply teacher in the second.
 
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Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, along with a number of MPs, recently attended an event, held in Parliament, to promote a ‘Muslim Manifesto’ put together by the Institute for Muslim Community Development. You can read it here.

Essentially, the manifesto demands that the British government act in accordance with the wishes of Muslim communities, above all other considerations. Some points of note are these:

“Defend the right to a Muslim way of life, including halal meat; religious clothing; circumcision; and flexible working to accommodate Ramadan and festival observance.”

What this means is that arguments against the burka/niqab, the halal meat industry, and circumcision (does this mean male and female?) should be ignored, and such practices defended by our politicians.

“Support efforts to accurately remember Muslim and non-Muslim histories including oppressive and genocidal actions against Muslim peoples by British and European peoples.”

This point plays directly in to the victim narrative of Islamists which portrays them as oppressed by the West and as such provides them with immense power, particularly on the Left-wing. “We are victims and therefore all criticism of us amounts to oppression” is the implication.

“Commit to ethical British foreign policies that uphold the human rights of all peoples.”

In other words, foreign policy should conform to the wishes of British Muslims?

“Affirm the importance of faith schools within the overall provision.”

Arguments against faith schools should be ignored – including ‘Trojan Horse’ schools?

“Celebrate and support Muslim heritage and cultural institutions.”

What exactly comes under the heading of “cultural institutions”? Sharia councils and tribunals perhaps?

“Provide assurance and evidence that foreign funding is not causing/promoting violent extremism in the UK.”

Foreign “funding”, as opposed to fanatical religious adherence, is the cause of violent extremism in the UK. This again props up the victim narrative – that Islamists are innocent, it is the West that is to blame.

“Introduce more robust legislation to curb media hate campaigns against Muslims.”

The media must be controlled – free speech and democratic press freedom must be destroyed.

“Guarantee the Muslim community the opportunity to evolve independently of government social engineering programmes.”

What does this mean? That “the Muslim community” should be exempt from certain social policies? To live “independently” of the law?

“Acknowledge that the holy scripture of Muslims (the Qur’an) does not endorse terrorism and the murder of innocents.”

Only positive depictions of the Quran should be permitted, irrespective of truth or opinion. Free debate on Quranic text should be prevented.

There are several other points in the manifesto to cause concern, but the fact that this list of demands, which opposes free speech, secularism, and one law for all, is entertained at the UK Parliament is the greatest concern of all. The event was hosted by Azad Ali (a high-ranking member of Unite Against Fascism) – a man who has said “Democracy, if it means not implementing the sharia, of course nobody agrees with that” – and of course supported by several Labour MPs, demonstrating again that Left-wing politicians simply cannot be trusted with our freedom.
 
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Handyjack- mqny of the interpretations of what is quoted are stretching the point you want to make rather than actually dealing with the content and context of the quote

For example

“Acknowledge that the holy scripture of Muslims (the Qur’an) does not endorse terrorism and the murder of innocents.”

Only positive depictions of the Quran should be permitted, irrespective of truth or opinion. Free debate on Quranic text should be prevented.


Surely the quote is exactly what we want Muslims to say? , ie you can't use the Quran to justify terrorism and murder .

Where does that quote say anything about stifling debate? It could just as easily be interpreted to say the opposite ie examine the text and put it into context , in the same way that the Bible endorses terrorism and murder but most Christians know that their religion does not.

I don't agree will all she is saying, for example I think there should be no faith schools of any description. However the commentary in the post lacks overall credibilty when it is patently not an analysis of the what the quotes actually say, but merely is using the quotes to hang an agenda on regardless of content.
 
I've had a look at the 'Manifesto' and reading it in full shows how selective the post above has been, this fuller text puts it into context better

An interesting one that was left out is 'to develop a 21st century idea logical narrative for Muslims'
Is there any of even the most anti Islamic posters here who would not endorse that?

It is also acknowledging existing failings within 'Muslim communities'.
Again, is this something that posters endorse or deride?

Text below:


Draft Muslim Manifesto
The Institute for Muslim Community Development suggests the following points in no particular order for a Muslim Manifesto. Note where the suffering of the British Muslim community and its demands mirror those of other communities we would fully support them in achieving their rights.

We would ask our parliamentary friends to:

Defend the right to a Muslim way of life, including halal meat; religious clothing; circumcision; and flexible working to accommodate Ramadan and festival observance.
Oppose all forms of hate crime, including Muslim-hate, Anti-Semitism and all other types of racism, whilst also promoting and enhancing community safety.
Promote good relations, understanding and cooperation between all of the UK’s communities.
Support efforts to accurately remember Muslim and non-Muslim histories including oppressive and genocidal actions against Muslim peoples by British and European peoples.
Commit to ethical British foreign policies that uphold the human rights of all peoples.
Affirm the importance of faith schools within the overall provision.
Support the provision of religiously and culturally sensitive youth and social care services.
Promote a more just and sustainable future in the UK and abroad; supporting efforts to tackle poverty, environmental degradation including climate change, human rights abuses and the misuse of arms.
Celebrate and support Muslim heritage and cultural institutions.
Eliminate the root causes of institutional discrimination against Muslims and introduce tougher legislation to prevent it.
Significantly reduce poverty in Muslim communities.
Reduce higher than average unemployment in Muslim communities.
Reverse rising criminalisation of Muslim youth.
Boost secular educational attainment of Muslims in Britain.
Significantly improve health and well-being in Muslim communities.
Provide assurance and evidence that foreign funding is not causing/promoting violent extremism in the UK.
Introduce more robust legislation to curb media hate campaigns against Muslims.
Guarantee the Muslim community the opportunity to evolve independently of government social engineering programmes.
Acknowledge that the holy scripture of Muslims (the Qur’an) does not endorse terrorism and the murder of innocents.
Acknowledge and celebrate Muslim contributions to knowledge and civilization including European civilisation.
Support all reasonable measures not to view Muslims with suspicion and through a security perspective.
Encourage enquiry into the effects of oversexualisation of public spaces upon young people.
Support the introduction of more rigorous and analytical religious education in all British schools that takes a balanced and critical approach to all the major world religions.
Provide more holistic and relevant curriculums in schools with a high proportion of Muslims pupils.
Support a holistic improvement of faith school education and stop the current securitization agenda.
Support greater development of the Muslim arts and cultural sector to nurture more mainstream Muslim cultural leaders and role models.
Allow Muslims greater access to decision-making processes in the security services.
Recognise Muslims have a distinct ‘way of life’ (deen) which opposes any understanding of religion or faith as separate from other aspects of life.
Withdraw all economic, military and other support for oppressive governments in Muslim and non-Muslim countries.
Promote the positive shared Abrahamic history of Moorish, Christian and Jewish culture in Europe.
Highlight and promote the Muslim Diaspora’s contribution to the British economy.
Encourage the development of a 21st century Muslim ideological narrative conducive to living peacefully in the West whilst remaining true to the values of Islam.
Oppose all unfair exploitation of resources owned by Muslim and non-Muslim countries.
 
You're not trying to tell us that the dumb racists are carefully selecting text regards the Muslim mantra, to display it in a bad light? Surely not?

Shock horror! :eek:
 
You're not trying to tell us that the dumb racists are carefully selecting text regards the Muslim mantra, to display it in a bad light? Surely not?

Shock horror! :eek:

Shock horror, Mr Muppet here won't or can't read between the lines.
:rolleyes:

Still wearing those blinkers I see.
 
Surely the quote is exactly what we want Muslims to say? , ie you can't use the Quran to justify terrorism and murder.

What they say and what they really mean are not the same thing.

Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."

There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.
 
Surely the quote is exactly what we want Muslims to say? , ie you can't use the Quran to justify terrorism and murder .
The somewhat obvious loophole is to call these things something else, such as under the umbrella of jihad. Thus the quran isn't being used to justify terrorism and murder, but is justifying the methods of the holy war and expansionism.
 
What they say and what they really mean are not the same thing.
Or to be more accurate, what they say, and what the obsessive anti-Islamists and racists pretend they say, are not the same thing.
 
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