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I have no sympathy's with islam and although brought up in a christian family I'm agnostic but looking! however, the religious atrocities of the world must surely go to the Christian religion?
I do personally believe that the islamic folk living as they do in close community's must know more than they admit to. we need to get ride of the gettos and have more intragation.
I do personally believe that the islamic folk living as they do in close community's must know more than they admit to. we need to get ride of the gettos and have more intragation.
No Richard you have to apply the morals and law of the land to all instead of letting the loony liberals pander to these closed communities as they have for too long.
All muslims havent planted the bombs but they are all guilty of aiding and abetting the extremists who they let into their communities and shelted them.
All muslims havent planted the bombs but they are all guilty of aiding and abetting the extremists who they let into their communities and shelted them.
most religions have probably gained from some kind of atrocity, maybe. but since the days of the crusades etc, science has evolved very very far, and shown us for example the earth isn't the centre of the universe, evolution, the big bang etc. we're slowly moving away from religion, and society has improved a lot.
but when i see all the terrorism and holy wars (jihad) carried out by muslims, in an attempt to spread islam and eventually impose islamic law, i see it as a step back of at least a thousand years in society. women's freedoms would be restricted, you'd get stoned to death for adultery, just 2 examples of outdated unjust laws. we know more about the world now, and that's why christianity/judaism/[any other religion] isn't spread by force nowadays.
people should be able to believe in whatever religion they want to, and there should never be any religious or racial hatred. a religious text promoting the deaths of non-believers is IMO racist. hence why in this context, criticising islam and the koran cannot be considered racism.
as for the recent bombings, they might've been motivated by the iraqi war, but maybe not. if the UK and USA governments were so bothered about spreading democracy and peace throughout the world, why are they not doing anything about mugabe, sudan, or china?? why only the middle east?? despite claims that the USA is a freely democratic society, why does there remain so much controversy surrounding the last 2 presidential elections?? why don't we have proportional representation, a fairer democracy? the USA/UK war may have been in the name of democracy and WMDs, but in private were probably about oil. and this doesn't help us fight against terrorism, only increase the risk of it.
we must clamp down on terrorism hard and fast. instead of spending money on an unjust war, we must use our resources and troops on securing our borders, and make it much more difficult to get terrorists and/or weapons in&out of the country. police should monitor where incitement is most likely to occur, even if its at a mosque. any preacher of racial hatred and their supporters must be arrested and deported straight away - if they want an islamic country, they can go back to one. you can't just allow them to continue under 'human rights, freedom of speech' crap. by tackling terrorism in this way, at the bud, those who hate and despise the UK would no longer be a threat.
sorry for the long post. please read http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/two_faces.htm and read the writer's excellent arguments.
but when i see all the terrorism and holy wars (jihad) carried out by muslims, in an attempt to spread islam and eventually impose islamic law, i see it as a step back of at least a thousand years in society. women's freedoms would be restricted, you'd get stoned to death for adultery, just 2 examples of outdated unjust laws. we know more about the world now, and that's why christianity/judaism/[any other religion] isn't spread by force nowadays.
people should be able to believe in whatever religion they want to, and there should never be any religious or racial hatred. a religious text promoting the deaths of non-believers is IMO racist. hence why in this context, criticising islam and the koran cannot be considered racism.
as for the recent bombings, they might've been motivated by the iraqi war, but maybe not. if the UK and USA governments were so bothered about spreading democracy and peace throughout the world, why are they not doing anything about mugabe, sudan, or china?? why only the middle east?? despite claims that the USA is a freely democratic society, why does there remain so much controversy surrounding the last 2 presidential elections?? why don't we have proportional representation, a fairer democracy? the USA/UK war may have been in the name of democracy and WMDs, but in private were probably about oil. and this doesn't help us fight against terrorism, only increase the risk of it.
we must clamp down on terrorism hard and fast. instead of spending money on an unjust war, we must use our resources and troops on securing our borders, and make it much more difficult to get terrorists and/or weapons in&out of the country. police should monitor where incitement is most likely to occur, even if its at a mosque. any preacher of racial hatred and their supporters must be arrested and deported straight away - if they want an islamic country, they can go back to one. you can't just allow them to continue under 'human rights, freedom of speech' crap. by tackling terrorism in this way, at the bud, those who hate and despise the UK would no longer be a threat.
sorry for the long post. please read http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Wood/two_faces.htm and read the writer's excellent arguments.
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FWL_Engineer said:
The Nazi aim was to rekindle Germanic neo-pagan mysticism.
That's your west-country pagan-ness coming out isn't it?
The "burning times" of the dark ages, aka The Pagan Holocaust. Of course our country's traditions are very much influenced by paganism.Closed communities are a very bad idea, they harbour this sort of hatred. There will be an immam who preached hatred to these guys, maybe even told them they would be martyrs. I'm interested to see they came out of Leeds, first thing I thought when the bombs started popping was "Bradford". Only place I know of where people had fireworks and street parties on the 11th of September 2001...
No Adam i think he refers to the Spanish/Portugese Catholic slaughter of over 80 million South American Pagans called Aztecs, infeact an almost entire civilisation, just so they could be made good Catholics on the order of the Pope and for the tons of gold that the Catholic church wanted but this is off track now
I used to live in the Hyde Park area of Leeds, and still go back when I want to buy an industrial sized bag of Bombay Mix or similar. As far as I've seen, its a very well integrated community with a good mix of whites and asians that all seem to rub along nicely, so I'm surprised that this is where some of the bombers are from.
Something must be pretty ****ed up if a group of British boys, raised here, from a reasonable area are so angry about something that they would do this.
Something must be pretty ****ed up if a group of British boys, raised here, from a reasonable area are so angry about something that they would do this.
Freddie said:sorry richard
O.K make sure you don't do it again or I'll get my waterpistol out.
but to be serous, I hear people saying "we don't wont people like that living amongst us nice white folk" well what do we do about it? ok so there's the old "send em back to timbukto" not helpful! we need to know why they did it, why werent they at work? etc and learn something from it. I personally would like to know what drove those people.
the problem is people are being too naive. its one thing to be tolerant, and quite another to be naive about the situation that surrounds us.
most of the responses ive read to the bombings is 'why?'. well find out!! there are numerous websites on the internet from which you can get a thorough and detailed analysis of the koran (islamic holy book) and about the reasons behind islamic extremism.
from what ive learnt so far, the koran is the sole root of all this, and is what drives these extremists and their fanatic behaviour. i don't yet know of any other religious text that promotes violence and hatred in the way it does.
you must take the time to learn about these people who are destroying your country and way of life. if you are naive, and believe islam to be a peaceful religion, then this problem will only continue.
not all muslims are religious, in the same way that not many christians are. but also there are those who show a face of decency whilst harbouring such extremist views in private:
finally muslims are encouraged to donate a certain proportion of their earnings to charity 'zakat'. this money can then be used to fund fisabillillah (terrorism - one who fights for the cause of Allah). in this way its likely that many, if not most muslims have contributed to terrorism.
most of the responses ive read to the bombings is 'why?'. well find out!! there are numerous websites on the internet from which you can get a thorough and detailed analysis of the koran (islamic holy book) and about the reasons behind islamic extremism.
from what ive learnt so far, the koran is the sole root of all this, and is what drives these extremists and their fanatic behaviour. i don't yet know of any other religious text that promotes violence and hatred in the way it does.
you must take the time to learn about these people who are destroying your country and way of life. if you are naive, and believe islam to be a peaceful religion, then this problem will only continue.
jtaunton said:
not all muslims are religious, in the same way that not many christians are. but also there are those who show a face of decency whilst harbouring such extremist views in private:
AdamW said:
finally muslims are encouraged to donate a certain proportion of their earnings to charity 'zakat'. this money can then be used to fund fisabillillah (terrorism - one who fights for the cause of Allah). in this way its likely that many, if not most muslims have contributed to terrorism.
unfortunately there's not much you can do with people who hold such views, except deport them. you can't educate someone like this to put western society above their god. the action i suggest our government takes is in my last post, and you'll find it's very reasonable and effective to take.richardp said:
user56565 said:
Given that I am one of the people you refer to, who just can't be arsed reading through the Koran, could someone quote the relevant passages ?
And if they are British, where are we supposed to deport them to ? Somewhere that people look like they do ? And given that no-one seems to have had a clue that they had suicidal tendencies until it was too late, what basis do we make the deportations on ?
jtaunton - i didn't refer to anyone here as not being a***d. i for one don't have the time to read the koran. but there are intellectuals who have, and you can read their interpretations as a first, as i have.
im not going to quote the passages here, but i'll post you some links with the passages quoted:
http://answering-islam.org.uk/t_root.html
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Authors/Arlandson/ten_reasons.htm
you'll find more links on terrorism and islam here: http://answering-islam.org.uk/Terrorism/index.html
the aggressors that need deporting can be simply sent to their country of origin. most muslims in the UK are originally from pakistan, and according to the bbc website, 3 of the bombers were of pakistani origin.
such deportations would have to made on the basis of new evidence.
im not going to quote the passages here, but i'll post you some links with the passages quoted:
http://answering-islam.org.uk/t_root.html
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Authors/Arlandson/ten_reasons.htm
you'll find more links on terrorism and islam here: http://answering-islam.org.uk/Terrorism/index.html
the aggressors that need deporting can be simply sent to their country of origin. most muslims in the UK are originally from pakistan, and according to the bbc website, 3 of the bombers were of pakistani origin.
such deportations would have to made on the basis of new evidence.
I suspect (though, as I have said earlier, can't be arsed to go check) that if the Koran is anything like the bible, then for every 'eye for an eye' there's a 'turn the other cheek' buried in there as well. Its all a matter of interpretation - thats why some people read the bible and think that it says being gay is OK, some read it and see the opposite.
Without wishing to bring this back to Iraq again, unfortunately most people's faith in evidence and intelligence has been irreparably damaged by that, and we can't regain that faith until everyone responsible for it leaves power. Not just Tony, but the John Scarlett's of this world too.
Without wishing to bring this back to Iraq again, unfortunately most people's faith in evidence and intelligence has been irreparably damaged by that, and we can't regain that faith until everyone responsible for it leaves power. Not just Tony, but the John Scarlett's of this world too.
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