twin and earth age in a home

[llewellyn63]

hello
Is there a way of telling the age of the wiring in a home?
wanting to know about black and red twin and earth cables more then anything, moving in to a bungalow wanted to know if i need a rewire, any tips what to look for??
may have been rewired in 1986?? it as a small mcb box, no rcds

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Just because the property may have had a fuse board change/update in the past, does not mean the hardwiring has been updated at the same time.
My advise to you would be to ask the Vendor for an electrical installation condition report (EICR). That should flag up any issues.
The age of red & black twin and earth can vary in age as it was being phased out in 2004 but that does not mean that it could not have been installed more recently. Concerns would arise if the sheath of the cable is black, as it could be VIR cable which then would rewire to be replaced.

Edited to prevent confusing of those that are easily confused!

 

[SaladFingers]

The age of twin and earth can vary in age as it was being phased out in 2004...

Really?

Twin and earth is still alive and kicking

 

[ericmark]

Early wiring was butyl rubber and lead covered a grey twin cable well before my time this was replace where the lead became black rubber and within my memory we moved to plastic. There are two types of plastic thermoplastic and thermosetting and also the gauge changed from imperial to metric and around 1968 the rules on earthing changed and the twin and earth was as the name implies a twin cable with an earth wire. Before then often there was no earth to the lights.

Cable manufacturers were not all the same and some of the early PVC had a problem with some of the material leaching out of them. The cable if keep cool or not moved was OK but if it got hot then the insulation could become brittle. And if moved it could crack. Often you find a green ooze coming from the plastic on the poorer makes.

So a house wired in 1970 may today be nearly up to modern standard with the exception of RCD protection it could also however be in a real need of a rewire. This is one of the reasons for the recommendation of a 10 year check. Add to that what DIY guy may do and that's why should also be checked on change of occupant.

There are also external changes in days gone by using the water and gas pipes as an earth was OK but with so much plastic pipe being used in the street although the water and gas is bonded to earth it's not the earth where not provided by the DNO a copper coated steel rod is now the normal method used.

The use of earth rods has also resulted is some changes. Years ago we used a device called an ELCB-v which was an early earth leakage trip but was very easy made inactive by fitting extra earth wires so we now use a ELCB-c or better known as a RCD.

Again the RCD has changed before 2008 there may be a RCD at 30ma for sockets used for outside stuff but many were 100ma not 30ma and will not really protect personnel.

In real terms it is unlikely you will learn enough to judge if a house need rewiring and really this is a job for some one who has passed his C&G2391 to give a report as to state of wiring.

 

[Monkeh]

The age of twin and earth can vary in age as it was being phased out in 2004...

Really?

Twin and earth is still alive and kicking

Not in red and black it's not.

 

[SaladFingers]

The age of twin and earth can vary in age as it was being phased out in 2004...

Really?

Twin and earth is still alive and kicking

Not in red and black it's not.

Yeah, we all know that, but that's not what he said.

 

[ericmark]

The age of twin and earth can vary in age as it was being phased out in 2004...

Really?

Twin and earth is still alive and kicking

Maybe Ulster is doing it right and using Ali-tube cable. We all know twin and earth should be phased out but rest of UK are penny pinching !!!!.

 

[llewellyn63]

Just because the property may have had a fuse board change/update in the past, does not mean the hardwiring has been updated at the same time.
My advise to you would be to ask the Vendor for an electrical installation condition report (EICR). That should flag up any issues.
The age of twin and earth can vary in age as it was being phased out in 2004 but that does not mean that it could not have been installed more recently. Concerns would arise if the sheath of the cable is black, as it could be VIR cable which then would rewire to be replaced.

The owns can not say or dont know about (EICR) hes in a home now and say no idea.
i was thinkin the consumer unit could have been upgraded and not the cabes as well

 

[SaladFingers]

Just because the property may have had a fuse board change/update in the past, does not mean the hardwiring has been updated at the same time.
My advise to you would be to ask the Vendor for an electrical installation condition report (EICR). That should flag up any issues.
The age of twin and earth can vary in age as it was being phased out in 2004 but that does not mean that it could not have been installed more recently. Concerns would arise if the sheath of the cable is black, as it could be VIR cable which then would rewire to be replaced.

The owns can not say or dont know about (EICR) hes in a home now and say no idea.
i was thinkin the consumer unit could have been upgraded and not the cabes as well

So apart from wanting to know how old it is, what's the actual concern here? Just general condition?

 

[llewellyn63]

Just because the property may have had a fuse board change/update in the past, does not mean the hardwiring has been updated at the same time.
My advise to you would be to ask the Vendor for an electrical installation condition report (EICR). That should flag up any issues.
The age of twin and earth can vary in age as it was being phased out in 2004 but that does not mean that it could not have been installed more recently. Concerns would arise if the sheath of the cable is black, as it could be VIR cable which then would rewire to be replaced.

The owns can not say or dont know about (EICR) hes in a home now and say no idea.
i was thinkin the consumer unit could have been upgraded and not the cabes as well

So apart from wanting to know how old it is, what's the actual concern here? Just general condition?

if i should get the bungalow rewired or not??
is it right that new twin and earth is good for 70 years now? or 25 years?

 

[SaladFingers]

Just because the property may have had a fuse board change/update in the past, does not mean the hardwiring has been updated at the same time.
My advise to you would be to ask the Vendor for an electrical installation condition report (EICR). That should flag up any issues.
The age of twin and earth can vary in age as it was being phased out in 2004 but that does not mean that it could not have been installed more recently. Concerns would arise if the sheath of the cable is black, as it could be VIR cable which then would rewire to be replaced.

The owns can not say or dont know about (EICR) hes in a home now and say no idea.
i was thinkin the consumer unit could have been upgraded and not the cabes as well

So apart from wanting to know how old it is, what's the actual concern here? Just general condition?

if i should get the bungalow rewired or not??
is it right that new twin and earth is good for 70 years now? or 25 years?

Well, it's unlikely that the vendor will pay for an EICR, as it's not mandatory for the sale, unless they're desperate and you know that and play on it.

Alternatively, pay to get one done yourself if you really like the place and don't want to lose out on getting it.

New wiring will usually outlive a new owner, but entirely depends on any butchering during installaton or in the future.

Some people rip cables through holes on rewires, not knowing that the friction causes so much heat and can easily wear away the insulation.

 

[llewellyn63]

Just because the property may have had a fuse board change/update in the past, does not mean the hardwiring has been updated at the same time.
My advise to you would be to ask the Vendor for an electrical installation condition report (EICR). That should flag up any issues.
The age of twin and earth can vary in age as it was being phased out in 2004 but that does not mean that it could not have been installed more recently. Concerns would arise if the sheath of the cable is black, as it could be VIR cable which then would rewire to be replaced.

The owns can not say or dont know about (EICR) hes in a home now and say no idea.
i was thinkin the consumer unit could have been upgraded and not the cabes as well

So apart from wanting to know how old it is, what's the actual concern here? Just general condition?

if i should get the bungalow rewired or not??
is it right that new twin and earth is good for 70 years now? or 25 years?

Well, it's unlikely that the vendor will pay for an EICR, as it's not mandatory for the sale, unless they're desperate and you know that and play on it.

Alternatively, pay to get one done yourself if you really like the place and don't want to lose out on getting it.

New wiring will usually outlive a new owner, but entirely depends on any butchering during installaton or in the future.

Some people rip cables through holes on rewires, not knowing that the friction causes so much heat and can easily wear away the insulation.

thanks for your help
I was getting comsumer unit upgraded and all fitting changed but i think i get the hole thing done as i dont know age of wiring, no point saving £600 to cost me 3 times that in 5 years time

 

[SaladFingers]

Just because the property may have had a fuse board change/update in the past, does not mean the hardwiring has been updated at the same time.
My advise to you would be to ask the Vendor for an electrical installation condition report (EICR). That should flag up any issues.
The age of twin and earth can vary in age as it was being phased out in 2004 but that does not mean that it could not have been installed more recently. Concerns would arise if the sheath of the cable is black, as it could be VIR cable which then would rewire to be replaced.

The owns can not say or dont know about (EICR) hes in a home now and say no idea.
i was thinkin the consumer unit could have been upgraded and not the cabes as well

So apart from wanting to know how old it is, what's the actual concern here? Just general condition?

if i should get the bungalow rewired or not??
is it right that new twin and earth is good for 70 years now? or 25 years?

Well, it's unlikely that the vendor will pay for an EICR, as it's not mandatory for the sale, unless they're desperate and you know that and play on it.

Alternatively, pay to get one done yourself if you really like the place and don't want to lose out on getting it.

New wiring will usually outlive a new owner, but entirely depends on any butchering during installaton or in the future.

Some people rip cables through holes on rewires, not knowing that the friction causes so much heat and can easily wear away the insulation.

thanks for your help
I was getting comsumer unit upgraded and all fitting changed but i think i get the hole thing done as i dont know age of wiring, no point saving £600 to cost me 3 times that in 5 years time

Well, have a look at the lighting circuit, if it's really old, there'll be no CPCs, so at least you know you're spending money wisely.

 

[Spark123]

If you are going to do a full renovation anyway this is a good time to rip everything to bits, add more sockets etc!
Without seeing the installation myself I cannot say wether or not it needs rewired so you ideally need a sparky to take a look.

 

[SaladFingers]

If you are going to do a full renovation anyway this is a good time to rip everything to bits, add more sockets etc!
Without seeing the installation myself I cannot say wether or not it needs rewired so you ideally need a sparky to take a look.

Good idea.

Good time to think of what else may be needed or wanted, such as lighting arrangements, external lighting, all fancy stuff.