extending ring

[wolfman1]

Am i allowed to extend a ring main in my house, i wish to power up my conservatory once it is finished and it is convenient to extend two sockets from the dining room, also, i wish to power up my shed so i thought about fitting a garage consumer unit on to the ring and then use armoured cable to the shed and another consumer unit in there, the shed would then be protected and also the outside cable would be protected, also does any one know the typical cost to replace the consumer unit in the house? we still have the original wire fuses and there is no spares for any future projects.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Some of the work you describe is notifiable to LABC by one means or another.
If you have the knowledge of how to do that , then yes you could carry out this work, subject to jumping through the council hoops.

I would look again at your suggestion to add a cu to the ring to feed the garage. Without further info, im just going to guess that this is not the best method.

Might i humbly suggest that you get a professional in to look at your requirements and discuss solutions.

 

[wolfman1]

I have done some research and it looks like extending the ring is notifiable, i am quite capable of working out what is safe and what isn't, but as usual safe may not comply with the regulations. Where do i find the guidelines as to what is and isn't good practice when extending or altering an existing property, i am more concerned with safety than regulations (though looking at the new radial method of fitting sockets, i fail to see how this is the safest method, the line to the first socket could really take some stick?)Is there some guidelines i can download?

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

or maybe extending the ring isn't notifiable.

Hint - shed, outdoors, addition, notifiable, fees.

Unfortunately, safety and regulation come hand in hand. The regs are supposedly designed for our safety. Only a confident designer or a foolhardy chancer will try to seperate the two.

I don't mean to belittle you in any way here (i'll leave that to the trolls, they'll be here soon, they can smell blood ), but if you do want to do this safely, you would be well advised to seek the advice of a professional.

The guidlines you seek are in the head of the electrician you will hopefully call.

( radial method - new - ??? ) call an electrician

 

[ericmark]

The main book is expensive and not available for down load but the update here may help and Wiring Matters issue 16 covers your shed there is also loads on this and many other forums.

To extend a ring main does not require Part P unless in kitchen or other special location, although if the conservatory is already under LABC then you may be covered by them anyway?

As to Ring v Radial there are pros and cons with both systems and because of the problems with earth leakage the idea of multi-radials each on it's own RCBO has become in many peoples eyes the better option plus it removes the dangers associated with parallel conductors and the problems in identifying ring or spur when extending. Although it is more likely to have volt drop problems.

The changing of a consumer unit can highlight many other problems and as a result to work out costs is very hard. Most good electricians will do a PIR first to try to highlight problems before they start on the change but even on smallest house unlikely to be under £300.

As to shed wiring SWA is of course right way to go but often a FCU or RCD/FCU is enough without needing a full consumer unit. However there are so many factors I would say this is a job for an electrician not DIY although he may give you a discount if you dig the trench.

I would say work out what you are going to do before the extension is notified to LABC as their fee is based on minimum of £2000 worth of work so for a £2000 job you will get same charge as for £50 job so may be an advantage to do all together!

 

[wolfman1]

or maybe extending the ring isn't notifiable.

Hint - shed, outdoors, addition, notifiable, fees.

Unfortunately, safety and regulation come hand in hand. The regs are supposedly designed for our safety. Only a confident designer or a foolhardy chancer will try to seperate the two.

I don't mean to belittle you in any way here (i'll leave that to the trolls, they'll be here soon, they can smell blood ), but if you do want to do this safely, you would be well advised to seek the advice of a professional.

The guidlines you seek are in the head of the electrician you will hopefully call.

( radial method - new - ??? ) call an electrician

Don't quite understand, all i was looking for was guidelines so i do the job with best practice in mind what i do about getting the job cerified? thats a different matter

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

I understand what you are trying to do, but i have already noticed a few errors in your post.
With tis in mind i am taking the view that it is in your best interest to seek the advice of a professional electrician.

If you want to be squeaky clean, then some of this work is notifiable. You have two options, tell LABC your self BEFORE you start work, or get an electrician who is registered with a scheme.

Consider this:-

Where i live, the minimum charge for a DIY'er to notify is £142 +VAT.
(rising to about £300 for £3K job)

Lets just say that the work involved is worth £200 of labour to an electrican. Materials cost substantially the same either way.

Then, given this, is it worth your time and effort to do it yourself to save about £40?
Do you want to get involved with LABC? (have you ever done any other notifiable jobs that havent been notified?)

 

[wolfman1]

Ok, so the shed is notifiable work, but the extension of the ring isn't, looking at the examples given i would choose the first method but have no spareways (hence the need to change the consumer unit apart from the lack of rcd protection) If i were just doing it, like what we used to i would have spurred from the ring and then fitted a two way consumer in the shed, so this may already have been fitted in the original shed if so i can repair? No? or i run an extension cable?

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Why not talk to an electrician who can look at your requirements as a whole. Get a solution which addresses everything you need. Offer the sparky your services as a labourer/lacky and see if that will bring his price down.

 

[wolfman1]

Why not talk to an electrician who can look at your requirements as a whole. Get a solution which addresses everything you need. Offer the sparky your services as a labourer/lacky and see if that will bring his price down.

Well, the whole point of DIY is just that, if i feel i can do the job, safely and within guidelines of accepted practice and is not notifiable then i want to do it myself, adding sockets and fitting fused spurs to an existing ring is not notifiable, so all i have to do is follow best practice, which is just what any electrician will do? or will he? maybe he will follow best pocket filler? I on the other hand like things perfect.
Sometimes i don't understand this forum, surely the diy'er wants to do the job himself, forums like this are surley there to give practical advice on how to go about doing the job properly, therfore i intend to add sockets to my ring and leave the shed untill i have a new cu fitted. in the meantime i'll use an extension lead (thats safe).

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

very well,
I did say something to that effect in my first post.
You then responded to that by saying you had done some research, and that extending the ring was notifiable.
This is incorrect.
I humbly mentioned this to you.

The advice i gave will stand up to scrutiny. It was not done to 'fill pockets'.
Also, if the advice was not what you wanted to hear, then im sorry, but thats the way i see it.
Please re-read my first post, if you wish.

You could perhaps, ask the same question in a number of different ways, hopefully you will get a number of conflicting answers. At least some of these answers will in some way corroborate/validate what it is that you hope to acheive in the manner that you wish to proceed.

Some times right and wrong have no bearing on matters when we're trying to save a few quid.

 

[ColJack]

ok, to DIY safely you will need...

a copy of the regs and a copy of the on site quide.. ( about £100 for both )
a basic understanding of electricity.. what are amps, what are volts, what is power etc..

a set of test instruments or an electrician willing to test for you..

and the ability to find the tab at the top of the site marked WIKI.. it's all in there if you bother to look..

( BTW, anything from here on in you bought upon yourself when you accused us all of being rip off merchants.. )

 

[wolfman1]

ok, to DIY safely you will need...

a copy of the regs and a copy of the on site quide.. ( about £100 for both )
a basic understanding of electricity.. what are amps, what are volts, what is power etc..

a set of test instruments or an electrician willing to test for you..

and the ability to find the tab at the top of the site marked WIKI.. it's all in there if you bother to look..

( BTW, anything from here on in you bought upon yourself when you accused us all of being rip off merchants.. )

I am going to unsubscribe, this aint what i thought it was all about,

 

[ColJack]

we're here to offerr advice, not tell you step by step how to do something..

you haven't thought about Part-P, you have no idea about circuits ( radials are the OLD way of doing it.. rings were bought in to save copper during the war.. ), and if you'd bothered to do some work for yourself and read the WIKI at the top of the site, there are guides in there to basic circuits, and adding sockets..

you say you favour safety over regulations..
regulations are there for the sake of safety.. why would an official body tell us to do something the unsafe way?

you accuse sparkies of prefering to "line ther pockets" rather than do a job properly?.. seeing as you wouldn't know the proper way anyway, how would you know?

for small jobs that are notifiable, you're better off getting a sparky in because as already said.. if you do it the proper way.. there's not much in the price between the sparkies cost and the LABC notification and testing fees..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I am going to unsubscribe

Hallelujah.