Issuing of AutoCAD drawings

[DevilDamo]

This is really for the Architects/Technicians/Designers among us.

If you have been comissioned by a client to produce planning/building regulation drawings, you would "normally" issue the client hard copies and the majority also like to have PDF's.

If you have been asked to provide your client with the AutoCAD/DWG files, would you just send them or would you refuse to, so they can't tamper with them OR pass them onto another person (i.e. architect/technician/designer) to utilise?

Does the designer "have to" provide these as the client has paid for them OR can the designer refuse to issue them, which is down to the discretion of that person?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I'm not totally sure of the legal side tbh, I recall this cropped up in a practice I used to work at, I have a feeling that even though they paid for their production you're not legally obliged to hand over the CAD files. As far as I know the copyright of your drawings is retained by the author and that is the original digital files.

If I'd just done Planning and the cad files were requested I'd heavily suspect they were getting quotes from the competition for the regs package and were trying to get the files to get the regs price down and would refuse.

I would have no issue issuing to an SE or timber frame subby or similar although I may get suspicious if did not issue direct.

I think I'd be very suspicious of any client who requested cad files if the job was done and dusted suspecting something may be have gone wrong with the build and someone maybe about to point the finger with some helpful manipulation of the drawings. This may seem a slightly paranoid view by non techys reading this but a sole trader does not have the funds a practice may have in order to fight its corner in the courts.

At the end of the day though they could send PDFs off to India or wherever and get them converted for a few ££.

On another issue DD I have learned something potentially rather scary about doing PJs whilst employed by a Practice, will write it up when I know more.

 

[Static]

Just issue pdf versions with the dwgs and keep good records of each issue.. that way if the client changes things and reissues you have a paper trail..

Alternatively issue dwf's which can be xref'd into acad but not modified..

If a client really wishes to modify your drawings there is little to stop him, there are lots of pdf-dwg converters and he can always use typex..

 

[Richard C]

Commissioning drawings & specifications of any sort doesn’t mean the client owns Copyright unless it was specified as part of the contract & this would usually mean a significant additional fee. Unless your contract included such provision, you’re under no obligation to supply them & if they change the drawings without your permission, they will be in breach of Copyright

 

[DevilDamo]

On another issue DD I have learned something potentially rather scary about doing PJs whilst employed by a Practice, will write it up when I know more.

Say whaaat?

Just issue pdf versions with the dwgs

I personally think that's a little too extreme as clients are only really interested in the finished product and not how the drawing(s) have been put together.

Richard C... Agreed

I have a couple of clients who have requested the DWG files for them to use in Sketchup, just to have a mess around with. In those situations, I suppose there's no harm in providing them with the DWG files, but reverting all the colours and layers back to 0 (white) and then purging the whole drawing so the previous colours/layers/block would be removed. That would mean if any other person used those drawings in AutoCAD, they'd have to re-layer the whole drawing. But even still... the bones of the drawing are still there.

 

[jeds]

This crops up occasionally.

If it's a large commercial job then I might let them have the CAD files for a reasonable charge. What that charge would be is hard to say - depends on the job, value, size of the files etc. and how well behaved the client had been.

For smaller domestic jobs I also charge but not really for the intellectual property it's because I use a large drawing template that has taken me years to build and contains a lot of purchased products, dynamic blocks and personal stuff that I value quite highly. It would take a fair bit of work to separatate all that out and produce clean file that they could have.

Of course you're not obliged so it's your choice really.

 

[^woody^]

The actual dwg file is not sent unless the client has specifically instructed this as part of the commission - and you have priced for it.

They would only want (or need) the file if they were planning on adapting the design or passing it to other contractors to let them use it for things like services etc

Normally the client is paying for the design and reproduction onto an agreed medium ie paper or a digital file such as pdf

I had an insistent client once who wanted the dwg file, and I knew he wanted it to use as a basis for some of his own drawing work which he had planned.
I agreed, but flattened the layers, changed all colours to white, exploded all blocks, put lots of line break points in and ensured that many enclosed areas were not really 'enclosed' to prevent easy hatching, then I put lots of 1mm dots into model space to make zoom all/extents annoying, and then remove the paper space viewports and page templates.

 

[mattylad]

Another thing is that it all depends upon your reationship with the customer.

Do you trust them? are they good payers.

If not then as said, issue dwf drawings with some sort of watermark on. Because once they have a dwg then its a lot more hassle for you to get paid.

only provide the full dwg files on confirmed payment.

Unless you have a good relationship and trust the customer to pay - or are seriously expecting a lot more work from them.

 

[DevilDamo]

flattened the layers, changed all colours to white, exploded all blocks, put lots of line break points in and ensured that many enclosed areas were not really 'enclosed' to prevent easy hatching, then I put lots of 1mm dots into model space to make zoom all/extents annoying, and then remove the paper space viewports and page templates.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I agreed, but flattened the layers, changed all colours to white, exploded all blocks, put lots of line break points in and ensured that many enclosed areas were not really 'enclosed' to prevent easy hatching, then I put lots of 1mm dots into model space to make zoom all/extents annoying, and then remove the paper space viewports and page templates.

I've received a few cad drawings like this, takes little time to turn it into something useful. When I inherit drawings on a job I always budget for a few hours of messing about! Its only the next one to work on the drawings you're going to affect not the client and how many of us do or would turn away a job that came with cad drawings on principal! Take a long hard look in the mirror guys!

 

[DevilDamo]

Haha! The BEST drawing standard is to draw eveything on 0 and just change the colour so it looks pretty when it prints

Oh yeh... issue your DWG drawings with the whole drawing on DEFPOINTS and see if the person at the receiving end can work out why it's not printing

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Haha! The BEST drawing standard is to draw eveything on 0 and just change the colour so it looks pretty when it prints

Oh yeh... issue your DWG drawings with the whole drawing on DEFPOINTS and see if the person at the receiving end can work out why it's not printing

I do about 95% of my small jobs on layer 0 and it would take anyone familiar with CAD to realise it was on Defpoints about 4 seconds!

 

[Lowfellboy]

The best approach when issueing a drawing to a client is to send them a PDF or hard paper copy with the word ''PRELIMINARY'' in large, light print at an angle across the sheet. This way they will take an age to try and make the drawing legit should they wish to by-pass paying their fees.

Technicaly, unless previously agreed, they are not entitled to the acad files, as you were asked to produce drawings for say an extension. How you do this is not their business as long as you produce the goods at the end of the day. Also the software is your property I presume.

The only reason I know of why the client would want the acad file is they have the software to change said file.
Not many clients are acad savy, and my suspicions would be raised when they ask.

By all means give them the acad files ONLY once they have paid their fee in full. What they do then is their business as you have been paid.

Lastly, always check the local council planning portal just to make sure they have not doctored your prelim drawings and issued to planning or regs as theirs.

 

[DevilDamo]

I do about 95% of my small jobs on layer 0

Really? I don't think I have EVER produced a drawing solely on Layer 0.

Lastly, always check the local council planning portal just to make sure they have not doctored your prelim drawings and issued to planning or regs as theirs.

For those of us who have the time, they may be ok, but it can be very time consuming and there's not a lot one can do if the client has decided to amend a drawing slightly to their advantage. You (i.e. architect/technician/designer) will have a record of this drawing as it went out so if it did come down to it, you could put them side-by-side and point out the differences... if any.

Also, building regulation/working drawings are not public information unlike the planning drawings so it'd be a little difficult to check to see if the BR drawings have been modified in any way... until it got to site and queries arose from the contractors.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I do about 95% of my small jobs on layer 0

Really? I don't think I have EVER produced a drawing solely on Layer 0.

You have to ask your self why though, on a small job such as an extension, do you need to distinguish many layers? Admittedly I have the majority of any detail notes in the PS layouts so there is little need to turn on or off many items. Sometimes I’ll have different text/dimension layers to manipulate for different scale drawings for example but other than that I just cannot see the point! Even on larger projects it amazes me the degree of layering that goes on (or should do according to many a practice’s QA system. Don’t get me wrong, in my last practice we had about 60 layers and on certain projects they were all utilised for particular drawings, I guess I’m just saying only put on unique layers what needs to go on its own layer, otherwise you’re just giving yourself more to do for no return. Have you ever read the British Standards for cad layers? My God what an absolute load of sh*te!