Fan Isolator - Zone 3 (I think)

[ldoodle]

Hiya,

We're re-doing out bathroom in the next few days and as the house has big air vents (before CH), one being in the bathroom I thought about using this for extraction.

The room is pretty much 2m x 2m and the existing air vent is right up in the corner, currently above the showering bath. However we are completely changing the layout of the bathroom so the bath is on the other side and the toilet will be under the existing air vent.

So the plan is to use a single pull cord for both lighting and extraction, with a 3P isolator in between the extractor. Only i'm not sure where to have the extractor - outside above the door or if I could get away with having it directly above the extractor as there would be enough height to fit a flush metal back box.

The latter would be easier in terms of cabling as I could run straight from the light fitting to the isolator, then drop straight down into the fan. Only thing though it would be a pain to access as you'd have to climb on top of the toilet.

Given the layout, what would be the best way? Is there anywhere else in the room it could go, thats easy to access - just above the toilet maybe, but would be close to the basin height.

View media item 33826

 

[pjcomp]

No point having the isolator where it's difficult to get at. The main practical use for them is to switch the extractor off when you use the bathroom in the middle of the night - however quiet an extractor fan may be, at 2am it's intrusive! Over the door on the outside is the most common place to find it, sometimes over the door on the inside but this can be debateable because of zones.

PJ

 

[ldoodle]

This is my thinking. A bit of extra work to run cables back and then forth against a lifetime of climbing on (and probably breaking) toilet seats........!

The problem with having it above the door is that if you're midgets you're stuffed. And if I was sleeping I would rather a fan come on than have the sound of someone clambering to get a step ladder.

I'm guessing the isolator is only used if the fan is fed from the same switch so you can isolate power to it when maintaining/cleaning the fan, so as much as I'd like to avoid having a completely seperate pull cord, as this would negate the need for the isolator, it may have to do.

 

[JohnW2]

No point having the isolator where it's difficult to get at. The main practical use for them is to switch the extractor off when you use the bathroom in the middle of the night - however quiet an extractor fan may be, at 2am it's intrusive!

Very true, but if it's an extractor that is required by the Building Regs (because of no, or insufficient, opening windows), I'm not sure that it's necessarily within the spirit of those regs to turn it off when the bathroom is being used (hence having an easily accessible isolator)!!

By the way, per the title of this thread, no-one has yet pointed out that there is no longer such a thing as Zone 3. Within a bathroom that small, the only permisible place for the isolator would be more than 2.25m above floor level - but we would then be back to your accessibility issue (even though the Building Regs might be proud of you for making access difficult!)

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So the plan is to use a single pull cord for both lighting and extraction,

Why?

Does the room not have a window?

If so, do you actually want the fan to come on whenever the light is turned on, and then to run on after the light has been turned off, no matter what the reason is that someone has gone in there?

When do you really want/need the fan to come on?

 

[ldoodle]

BAS, because I was thinking lazy - just run a cable from the lift fixing to the extractor! Job done, easy as pie! And I didn't particularly want 2 pull cords as the extractor one would either never get used, or pulled incorrectly.

The only other way would be to put both the light and isolator outside the room, next to the door, which can be done but the most agro involved. Then I don't really like light switches outside rooms because you get funny people turning them off when you're in there, but if i'm going to the effort of putting the isolator there I may as well do the light as well, as i'm not particularly fond of pull cords.

Yes the room does have a window, quite a nice size actually - tall and thin.

I know the room doesn't even need an extractor, but it makes sense as we re-dong the bathroom to use a non-needed hole for a purpose, I think anyway.

I know Zone 3 no longer exists, now 'Not Zoned' or something or other.

 

[Click4]

So the plan is to use a single pull cord for both lighting and extraction,

Why?

Does the room not have a window?

If so, do you actually want the fan to come on whenever the light is turned on, and then to run on after the light has been turned off, no matter what the reason is that someone has gone in there?

When do you really want/need the fan to come on?

I know most extrator fans seem to be timed and come on with the light, but like BAS says, why? because in most cases its probably not the most practical way of activating an extractor fan. So in that respect I agree with BAS and like he says "when do you really want/need the fan to come on?"

in bathrooms the extractor helps remove moist air thus reducing humidity from the room I would of thought, and so the time it is mainly required is when it somebody is using the bath or shower.

so surely in bathrooms a fan activated by a humidistat is more practical?

never really (personally) saw the point of a fan coming on every time you switch the light on, just a waste of electricity and if you have a bath/shower in the daytime you have to run the light just to activate the extractor fan.

however a small downstairs toilet for example, or one located downstairs without a window, then I can see timed ones being more practical as the small confined space is benefitted from some kind of air circulation and the type which comes on with the light seems more appropriate.

what do you think BAS?

but getting back to the point about isolators, like has been said above, probably most ideal place is outside the room above the door or next to it... then safety zones dont come into question.

 

[ldoodle]

When do you really want/need the fan to come on?

Ideally when the shower/bath valve is set to open!

 

[Click4]

well then wouldnt it be more applicable to use an extractor fan with a humidistat?

so as soon as the humidity of the room rises (because the bath/shower is on) the fan automatically comes on when required... then goes off again once the humidity has dropped.

rather than it coming on un-necessarily every time you switch the light on, or requiring the light to be on to function during the daytime.

 

[ldoodle]

Yes you're right, but all the decent looking humid. fans are 4x times the price as simple PC ones.

So I'm thinking of having 2 pulls cords, despite my comments above. Only i'd have the light one to the left of the door as you enter and the fan one to the right as it will be nearer the shower so you can turn on/off while showering without having to get out of the bath.

Can you get pull cords that have labels on them (fan, light etc) like you can get for kitchen appliances?

 

[riveralt]

Can you get pull cords that have labels on them (fan, light etc) like you can get for kitchen appliances?

http://www.google.co.uk/products/ca...=X&ei=9RLDTcyGHY6XhQeav_mmBQ&ved=0CGMQ8wIwAQ#

 

[Click4]

Yes you're right, but all the decent looking humid. fans are 4x times the price as simple PC ones.

So I'm thinking of having 2 pulls cords, despite my comments above. Only i'd have the light one to the left of the door as you enter and the fan one to the right as it will be nearer the shower so you can turn on/off while showering without having to get out of the bath.

Can you get pull cords that have labels on them (fan, light etc) like you can get for kitchen appliances?

true lol which is probably the main reason why people dont buy them.. but the ironic thing is add up all the wasted electricity every time it coems on and you dont want it and the cost probably evens out over time.

2 pull cords is a more sensible option than using the light, but if like some people you had light, shower isolator.. then a 3rd for a fan it could get a bit confusing and in the dark could end up going for the light and pulling the wrong one.

you cant get them with labels that im aware of, unless you stick some kind of label on.

like you say they are available for kitchens, and grid type switches/fittings. but havent seen them for pull switches.

although ive seen ones which come with stick on stickers saying "shower" etc

 

[EFLImpudence]

Have a two-gang two-way switch and wire it so that when the fan switch is 'off' it never comes on and when the fan switch is 'on' it operates only when the light switch is also on (with over-run if you want).

That way when you have a bath you press both switches and when you get up for a wee in the night you only press the light switch.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

We're re-doing out bathroom in the next few days

And how much is all of that costing?

FFS stop being a d***head trying to save a few quid by installing a fan which is not what you really want, or d***ing about with multiple switches and stick-on labels!

Either put in a humidistat one, or a regular one triggered by the operation of the shower.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes you're right, but all the decent looking humid. fans are 4x times the price as simple PC ones.

Humidistat <3x £6