Counterfeit and Illegal Plugs and Leads

[Monkeh]

And I would say one thing that would help is to be able to down load the British Standards without paying huge fees. I can see how we need to pay for paper but the restrictions on publishing British Standards must surely be lifted if we really want to stop this problem?

You may want to consider registering with your local library. I've just downloaded a copy of BS1363-1:1995.

 

[JohnW2]

You may want to consider registering with your local library. I've just downloaded a copy of BS1363-1:1995.

In that case, maybe you can answer a question I've been wondering about. The assertion/belief that a partially sleeved earth pin creates a safety hazard (with some types of socket) implies that, somewhat to my surprise, BS1363 does not require contact between the earth pin and the socket receptacle along much/most/all of the length of the earth pin. Is that the case?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[TAB]

My understanding is that a moulded plug connected to a 2-core cable could be compliant with a completely plastic earth pin, so there really can't be any logical safety issue with a partially shrounded earth pin. Whether not they BS1363 is that logical is another matter!


Kind Regards, John.

I cannot see anything in BS1361-1 that forbids such a setup.

"Plastic earth pins" are allowed (not could be ), BS1361-1 calls them insulated shutter opening devices (ISODs).

Cheers

 

[JohnW2]

My understanding is that a moulded plug connected to a 2-core cable could be compliant with a completely plastic earth pin, so there really can't be any logical safety issue with a partially shrounded earth pin. Whether not they BS1363 is that logical is another matter!

I cannot see anything in BS1361-1 that forbids such a setup.
"Plastic earth pins" are allowed (not could be ), BS1361-1 calls them insulated shutter opening devices (ISODs).

The 'could be' related to the fact that a plug such as I described would be compliant with BS1361 IF it were also compliant with all other requirements of the Standard. From what I'm being told, it is quite possible that leads we are discussing may be non-compliant with BS1363 for reasons other than the partially-sleeved earth pins.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Monkeh]

You may want to consider registering with your local library. I've just downloaded a copy of BS1363-1:1995.

In that case, maybe you can answer a question I've been wondering about. The assertion/belief that a partially sleeved earth pin creates a safety hazard (with some types of socket) implies that, somewhat to my surprise, BS1363 does not require contact between the earth pin and the socket receptacle along much/most/all of the length of the earth pin. Is that the case?

Kind Regards, John.

I can see no such requirement in BS1363-2.

However, for a plug to be compliant with BS1363-1, the 'earth' pin must either be solid brass (or similar), or an ISOD with no termination.

 

[JohnW2]

I can see no such requirement in BS1363-2.

Thanks. However, there surely must be some requirement for the minimum acceptable amount of contact between the plug's pin and the socket's 'receptacle'? - it would seem unlikely that a socket would be acceptable if, say, there were only 1mm² of contact between earth pin and socket?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Monkeh]

I can see no such requirement in BS1363-2.

Thanks. However, there surely must be some requirement for the minimum acceptable amount of contact between the plug's pin and the socket's 'receptacle'? - it would seem unlikely that a socket would be acceptable if, say, there were only 1mm² of contact between earth pin and socket?

Kind Regards, John.

I believe this is relevant:

10.1.1 Compliance shall be checked by inspection and the following:

b) for metal parts connected to an earthing terminal or earthing plug pin, by the following test.
A Current of 25 A ± 0.75A, derived from an a.c. source having a no-load voltage not exceeding 12 V, is passed for 60s between the remote end of the protective conductor of a 3-core flexible cord and the remote end of the earthing plug pin and any accessible metal part intended to be earthed, taking account of the following:

1) for non-rewirable plugs, the manufacturer's connection is tested as supplied

2) for rewirable plugs, 1.25 mm² flexible cord complying with Table 27 of BS 6500:2000 shall be used:

i) for screw type terminals the clamping screw shall be tightened with a torque equal to two-thirds of the appropriate value given in Table 3;

ii) for clamp-type (screwless) terminals the connection shall be made in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

The resistance between the earthing terminal or termination and any other nominated metal part shall not exceed 0.05 Ω.

Certain parts omitted for brevity.

 

[FatallyFlawed]

My understanding is that a moulded plug connected to a 2-core cable could be compliant with a completely plastic earth pin, so there really can't be any logical safety issue with a partially shrounded earth pin. Whether not they BS1363 is that logical is another matter!


Kind Regards, John.

I cannot see anything in BS1361-1 that forbids such a setup.

"Plastic earth pins" are allowed (not could be ), BS1361-1 calls them insulated shutter opening devices (ISODs).

Cheers

BS 1363 is quite specific, clause 12.16 states "Sleeves shall not be fitted to any earthing plug pin." (And, of course, ISODs are not allowed in rewireable plugs, only moulded plugs.)

 

[JohnW2]

BS 1363 is quite specific, clause 12.16 states "Sleeves shall not be fitted to any earthing plug pin." (And, of course, ISODs are not allowed in rewireable plugs, only moulded plugs.)

Yes, it is clear that, in strict terms, any plug with a sleeved earth pin cannot be BS1363-compliant.

In terms of safety (rather than compliance), the sleeved earth pin may be an issue with some sorts of sockets when used for three-core cable. I think that all the examples we've seen or been told about in this thread have been moulded plugs with 2-core cable; do I take it that there are rogue products around which are either moulded 3-core or re-wireable?

As for the moulded plugs with two core cable, it certainly is hard to see that the partially-sleeved earth pin can possibly create a safety (rather than just compliance) problem - although I accept that there might be other aspects of them which raise safety issues.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Monkeh]

As for the moulded plugs with two core cable, it certainly is hard to see that the partially-sleeved earth pin can possibly create a safety (rather than just compliance) problem - although I accept that there might be other aspects of them which raise safety issues.

There's always the fact that the pins do not comply to the form stated by BS1363 and could cause damage to the receptive contacts in the socket.

 

[Grizzly]

Plugs designed for medical equipment do sometimes lack the fuse because of the dangers should the fuse blow. However again they are not FAKE although normally coloured RED to show they are for medical equipment.

I did not realise that, do you know what standards/regulations such fuseless plugs should meet?

Not standards or regs, but this document for NHS Scotland some years back might be of use:
www.hfs.scot.nhs.uk/publications/PSAN9504.pdf

 

[JohnW2]

There's always the fact that the pins do not comply to the form stated by BS1363 and could cause damage to the receptive contacts in the socket.

Possibly, but I would have thought very unlikely. If a brass pin is OK, and a solid plastic one is OK, then I would have thought it very unlikely that a 'half and half' would harm the contacts - but who knows. As discussed, it would certainly be non-compliant.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Monkeh]

There's always the fact that the pins do not comply to the form stated by BS1363 and could cause damage to the receptive contacts in the socket.

Possibly, but I would have thought very unlikely. If a brass pin is OK, and a solid plastic one is OK, then I would have thought it very unlikely that a 'half and half' would harm the contacts - but who knows. As discussed, it would certainly be non-compliant.

Kind Regards, John.

I'm not talking about the material, but the dimensions and profile. Also, BS1363 requires testing to prove the material used for the ISOD and/or sleeving on the live pins does not cause excessive wear to any part of the socket.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

I can see no such requirement in BS1363-2.

Thanks. However, there surely must be some requirement for the minimum acceptable amount of contact between the plug's pin and the socket's 'receptacle'? - it would seem unlikely that a socket would be acceptable if, say, there were only 1mm² of contact between earth pin and socket?

Whilst I fully expect to be totally ignored...

- in any physically possible plug/socket arrangement there is unlikely to be more than a single point of contact. Try to visualise how there could be more given real world bent pieces of metal. Think about how some connectors take (let's say 13A) and a USB Micro-AB receptacle (have a look at one! you can hardly see it) takes 1.8A.

The difference can't be in the area of contact, as this can only be a single point (or sometimes maybe two single points), but is more likely to be related to the volume of the pins/socket contacts, and their power dissipation capabilities.

It would be nice to see a paper/book or whatever, explaining how a given connector gets a given current rating.

 

[FatallyFlawed]

BS 1363 is quite specific, clause 12.16 states "Sleeves shall not be fitted to any earthing plug pin." (And, of course, ISODs are not allowed in rewireable plugs, only moulded plugs.)

Yes, it is clear that, in strict terms, any plug with a sleeved earth pin cannot be BS1363-compliant.

In terms of safety (rather than compliance), the sleeved earth pin may be an issue with some sorts of sockets when used for three-core cable. I think that all the examples we've seen or been told about in this thread have been moulded plugs with 2-core cable; do I take it that there are rogue products around which are either moulded 3-core or re-wireable?

John, If you had actually looked at the website originally referenced you would have seen that of the 37 sample ebay and Amazon listings of illegal power cords shown only 5 have 2 pin sockets, the other 32 are three pin.