Light fitting - Help, is there an extra wire(!)?

[njfuller]

Hi all,

A friend almost finished fitting my light, there is one red wire left and I have no idea where it goes. Have taken a snap shot for you - I think the black one coming from the same source is the switch (?), does this red one go with all the other red ones?

Apologies for my idiocy

Would greatly appreciate some help as my wife gets back from hols in 4 hours and I can't face the torment of not being able to fit a light

N

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• njfuller
• 18 Sep 2011
• 1

Untitled

• njfuller
• 18 Sep 2011
• 1

Untitled

• njfuller
• 18 Sep 2011
• 1

 

[Space cat]

Where to start!

There appear to be too many cores coming out of what looks like two cables on the right. Is there a third one that we can't see.

The brown (live) wire from the light fitting is connected to a number of black wires which, unless the original wiring was done by an idiot, will be neutral. The blue (neutral) wire looks like it's connected to black, but that one will NOT be neutral. It'll be switched live coming out of a cable that leads to the switch. (To avoid that kind of confusion, it's good practice to put a piece of red sleeving on it but it doesn't always happen.)

The cable over to the right does not appear to have an earth core.

The black core of that cable without an earth is connected in with the other neutrals so the red core could plausibly be one of two things:

1) A live feed to another light with its own switch.

2) A switched live to another light that operates from the same switch as this one.

Edit: Step zero: Power off!

Step one: Get the brown and blue wires the right way round.

Step two: IMPORTANT! Find the earth core in the cable on the right and connect it to the others.

Step three: Isolate the floating red wire.

Does the light work? Do any other lights that used to work no longer do so?

 

[Stoday]

A friend almost finished fitting my light,

But didn't finish it it would appear. What did he do — bu99er it up, do a runner and leave you in the proverbial? Some friend!

 

[njfuller]

Hi

Thank you very much for your reply. There is no 3rd cable on the right, with the extra red, and black wire.

By"Isolate" the red wire, do you mean, wrap it up and ignore it? (!)

Where exactly should the blue wire go?

 

[njfuller]

Well - to be fair,

He finished it - it worked, then started getting unpredictable.

I thought I would be billy big *******s and have a look.

When I opened it it looked as though the BLUE cable had fallen out of where it now is (I put it in)

And the red was hanging. Is it possible that....

The red cable should be where the blue one is

The blue doesn't go anywhere because my **** hole of an apartment doesn't have an earth??

I'm clutching at straws here so take everything I say with a canyon of salt.

Pic from another angle below

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• njfuller
• 18 Sep 2011
• 1

 

[Space cat]

The new picture solves one puzzle; there are three cables on the left.

He finished it - it worked, then started getting unpredictable.

Which suggests that the blue wire was loose. That's why it fell out when you opened it up to have a look..

So -- we know it worked after a fashion. Swap the brown and blue wires over because they're the wrong way round. Brown is live and blue is neutral.

The red cable should be where the blue one is

No way!

The blue doesn't go anywhere because my s**t hole of an apartment doesn't have an earth??

Forget that idea. You really are clutching the wrong straw there.

Just to clarify something, there is only one CABLE on the right (and three on the left). The individual wires inside a cable are called CORES - and the right hand CABLE is one short. There should be a bare copper earth wire in there. Find it and connect it to the others.

By 'isolate' I mean make it safe while you work out what's going on. Tape it up or put it in a piece of choc-block. With the blue and brown wires the right way round, try the light. It will probably work but one or more others probably won't. The results of this test will give us an idea about what to do with the loose red wire.

 

[Click4]

Personally id remove all the connections and start again.

The reason why it fell apart is probably because 1 of the connections was loose to begin with, or overtightened.. no need to say how dangerous this is as to be blunt your "friend" could of burnt your house down.. or the connector blocks too small to easily fit 2 wires.

Those connector blocks could be too small to fit 2 wires, flex wire certainly looks like it has been stuffed in and I can see exposed conductors, where the core is either too long or not inserted enough into the connector block.

Cant see any earth wires either? have they been connected together and sleaved?

think you need to establish which cable is the switch wire, which is the loop in from the previous light, and which is the loop out to the next light, then establish your neutrals and your lives, then reassemble everything making sure you have earth continuity, and good connections between the wires. Sleave the earths appropriately, and sleave the black switch wire red (as there are no neutrals on switch lines, just 2 live) Then if you ever have to pull it apart again in future, or anybody else they will be able to establish the switch line easier.

If that wire fell out, then id question if the other wires are ok also as its a fire risk... really is, came accross a ceiling rose with loose connections once, the wires had all got hot and you could see where the insulation had gone crispy and brittle with a bit of a burnt appearance.

 

[Space cat]

Cant see any earth wires either? have they been connected together and sleaved?

I'm fairly sure I can see at least two - and hopefully three - very short earth wires in a single choc-block with the light fitting's earth wire. (Note to njfuller; green-yellow is earth.) There's no sign of an earth in the right hand cable - and there should be!

Personally id remove all the connections and start again.

That's probably what I'd do but ---

Before you take ANY wires out of ANY terminal, label them in such a way that you can put them back EXACTLY where they came from. Since you had a working light, it's probable that most of the connections are correct. If you take them all out without any labels, your chances of putting them back correctly by trial and error are not good.

If that wire fell out, then id question if the other wires are ok also --

Indeed so. Where there's one bad joint, there are likely to be others. Once you've got it all working (if you ever do), I would remake all of the connections.