First meandering philosophical discussion of 2012..

[ban-all-sheds]

So - cables concealed in walls and partitions and all that.

If I converted a Nissen hut by spraying insulation over the skin on the inside, and then rendered and plastered it all, where would the walls become the ceiling?

 

[jj4091]

Or an igloo?

 

[jj4091]

Dictionary definition of a wall
"noun
1. any of various permanent UPRIGHT constructions having a length much greater than the thickness and presenting a continuous surface except where pierced by doors, windows, etc.: used for shelter, protection, or privacy, or to subdivide interior space, to support floors, roofs, or the like, to retain earth, to fence in an area, etc. "
So it would appear you only have a ceiling. [/i]

 

[chivers67]

Where would the walls become the ceiling?

Where does the ceiling stop and become a wall?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Dictionary definition of a wall
"noun
1. any of various permanent UPRIGHT constructions having a length much greater than the thickness and presenting a continuous surface except where pierced by doors, windows, etc.: used for shelter, protection, or privacy, or to subdivide interior space, to support floors, roofs, or the like, to retain earth, to fence in an area, etc. "
So it would appear you only have a ceiling. [/i]

In that case, given that the builders of it regarded squares, tape measures, plumb lines and spirit levels as implements of the Devil, I appear to have no walls in my house.

 

[ericmark]

Does it matter as 50mm rule applies to both. However I do see how in the real world is does become a problem where one tries to follow the rules with something unusual. The one which comes to mind is wiring a stone cottage.

Digging out mortar between the stones putting in mineral cable and re-pointing the stones is one way to satisfy Cadw who decide what we can do with listed buildings. Since they override building regulations requirements I would assume it would also override BS7671 requirements as well? So even though the cables don't travel horizontal and vertical but follow the line of the stones as long as Cadw say you can do it then it's OK.

I think the Nissen hut like the old red telephone box is a listed building so it would in Wales come under Cadw. I think there is a similar government organisation in England think it's called English Heritage?

As to temporary structures like the igloo I think one would need a water proof plug and socket arrangement so as the structure melted and put strain on the wiring it would be free to auto disconnect.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Does it matter as 50mm rule applies to both.

I thought that it only applies to ceilings at the point where a cable goes through a joist. Clearly doesn't do that here...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Where would the walls become the ceiling?

Where does the ceiling stop and become a wall?

That's easy - 150mm from where the wall stops and becomes a ceiling.

 

[bernardgreen]

Cadw who decide what we can do with listed buildings. Since they override building regulations requirements I would assume it would also override BS7671 requirements as well?

Yes official conservationists can over ride some of the building regulations. Which leads to the situation where "conservation" rules will result in the building being liable to collapse or burn while building regs will go a long way to ensuring the building will not collapse or burn.

I think the Nissen hut like the old red telephone box is a listed building

Sadly not all red telephone boxes were listed so many disappeared.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

In the event to ensure safe installation, I would take worst case scenario.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Does it matter as 50mm rule applies to both.

No - the rules are not the same.

 

[plugwash]

Does it matter as 50mm rule applies to both. However I do see how in the real world is does become a problem where one tries to follow the rules with something unusual. The one which comes to mind is wiring a stone cottage.

Digging out mortar between the stones putting in mineral cable and re-pointing the stones is one way to satisfy Cadw

Assuming by "mineral cable" you means MICC then afaict that is perfectly fine by BS7671 under the "earthed metal covering" option.

who decide what we can do with listed buildings. Since they override building regulations requirements I would assume it would also override BS7671 requirements as well?

There was never any direct legal requirement to follow BS7671, it is just one way to show you made reasonable provision for safety.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes official conservationists can over ride some of the building regulations.

Along with common sense, pride in workmanship, common decency, the requirement to be able to be trusted with scissors before being allowed out on your own, logic, coherent thought...

The list of things which official conservationists can, in their monumental ignorance, and arrogance which would have terrified Hitler and Stalin, ignore, is probably endless.

 

[ebee]

"where would the walls become the ceiling?"

I love it!

At least you did not ask "how long is a piece of string?"

 

[bernardgreen]

Turning the subject upside down.

In a bored tunnel where does the floor end and the walls start.