Bathroom downlights not working

[NewOrder]

Not had a look yet as I have too much going on, funeral on Monday and not been too well but hopefully on Tuesday I will be able to have a look at the problem.

The problem is we have three 12v downlights in a box to conceal pipes above the bath. My mate put these in ten years ago and I've always suspect they are not IP65 rated so been wanting to replace them for a while.

Anyway now they have stopped working, over the last few days they have been flickering or and other people have reported them not working at all.

If you switch it on they glow very dimly for a second and then go out, am I right in thinking this points to a transformer fault?

The switch is a corded type, so I will short this on Tuesday to make sure its not the switch.

Now my question, under Part P you can replace like for like fittings, so could I legally put in some 12v IP65 rated downlights to replace the broken ones or do I simply need to get a spark in?

Access is going to be a major problem but I can sort that before any sparky comes in.

What do you guys think? Want to do everything above board and can replace the downlights and transformers easily but I am not sure I can legally and does lights in zone 2 (its a high ceiling although above a bath) need some sort of RCD protection even if it is 12v?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

could well be transformer don't say like for like some get very heated and touchy with that term.
My interpenetration now of schedule 4 would lead me to saying you would be able to replace the fittings with out notification, providing no new cables were installed.
I however would have concerns over the electrics and concealed pipe work being routed together. What is the pipe work metal, plastic hot or cold?
And were are tranys installed as they require plenty of ventilation.

 

[wingcoax]

If the Tranny has lasted 10 years the op has done very well.

 

[NewOrder]

I have no idea, although I was there when the work was being done I was only 18 at the time .

Not surer where the transformer is but I do remember the plumbing was copper and he used solder joints rather than compression joints. The pipes are from the hot water tank, the transformer would have been located well away from them though.

It the box is a very big space, so the transformer would have had chance to breath.

I am now actually thinking to get a spark in and get the lot converted to 240v stuff. Even if I did replace the lights there would be new wiring involved from the new transformer to the lights and as its looking like I don't think installation was compliant in the first place .

I will test switch just to make sure

 

[riveralt]

.....don't say like for like some get very heated and touchy with that term.

Must have missed that one - but there is nothing wrong with like for like replacement - it is up to the individual to determine the definition and how wide the scope of that definition is - since at the end of the day they are the ones who have to justify the decision and not pundits on this forum.

By way of example, I will be replacing two non ip rated downlights with two ip and fire rated downlights in a bathroom - as far I am concerned like for like not notifiable - end of.

 

[riveralt]

Now my question, under Part P you can replace like for like fittings, so could I legally put in some 12v IP65 rated downlights to replace the broken ones or do I simply need to get a spark in?

Yes you can but they don't have to be IP65 rated - IP 44 is fine for zone 2 and would probably meet the zonal criteria in your case. Although reading between the lines it could be your lights are above 2.25m high so they are outside the zone anyway.

As for the boxed in issue - provided there is sufficient free space around and above the light unit - as per manufacturers instructions - for example 50mm above and 100mm around the unit.

 

[Aragorn84]

.....don't say like for like some get very heated and touchy with that term.

Must have missed that one - but there is nothing wrong with like for like replacement - it is up to the individual to determine the definition and how wide the scope of that definition is - since at the end of the day they are the ones who have to justify the decision and not pundits on this forum.

By way of example, I will be replacing two non ip rated downlights with two ip and fire rated downlights in a bathroom - as far I am concerned like for like not notifiable - end of.

The point being the law doesnt actually mention the phrase "like for like", it simply says replacement.

 

[riveralt]

The point being the law doesnt actually mention the phrase "like for like", it simply says replacement.

What law would that be then?

 

[Aragorn84]

Schedule 4 of the Building Regs, which covers changes which are allowed without notification.

 

[riveralt]

Schedule 4 of the Building Regs, which covers changes which are allowed without notification.

Yes but these only apply in England and Wales. And in any case I stated.

but there is nothing wrong with like for like replacement - it is up to the individual to determine the definition and how wide the scope of that definition is - since at the end of the day they are the ones who have to justify the decision and not pundits on this forum.

Since there is no definition for ' replace' in the regs this is my interpretation that I would stand by.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Stop sniping, it doesn't help.

The fault could as easily be a dodgy connection - especially on the 12v side.

Or a dying transformer as already suggested.

 

[riveralt]

Stop sniping, it doesn't help.

The fault could as easily be a dodgy connection - especially on the 12v side.

Or a dying transformer as already suggested.

Which answers part of the OP's question, though for the price it might me more simple to replace the current lights for ones more suited to the environment.
No sniping, I was simply answering the second part of the OP's question concerning whether the job is notifiable, which clearly it is isn't and trying to put an end to this foolish debate on the definition of 'replacement' and why the words 'like for like' should be an anathema.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Now my question, under Part P you can replace like for like fittings, so could I legally put in some 12v IP65 rated downlights to replace the broken ones or do I simply need to get a spark in?

In terms of Part P you can do what you like, as long as you do it properly:

 

[ban-all-sheds]

trying to put an end to this foolish debate on the definition of 'replacement' and why the words 'like for like' should be an anathema.

The only thing foolish is insisting on the insertion of "like for like" into the wording of the legislation, which is anathema because it is wrong and can lead to a false designation of notifiability.

 

[NewOrder]

Sorted it.

Looks like the metal contacts in the push cord switch had worn away causing it to arc. Replaced the push cord switch and it now works fine.