Low Voltage Downlights In Bathroom?

[microkid]

I am planning on fitting a new plasterboard ceiling in my bathroom and thought I would take the opportunity to replace the ageing lights.

I would like to fit 4 x low voltage downlights each with an individual transformer that will be concealed within the loft.

As these are low voltage and the hazardous parts are in the loft do I need an IP65 rated fitting, or will any LV downlight fitting be acceptable?

 

[cox377]

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Firstlight/Zones.pdf

There is the information on Zones.

I think you can safely say you will need IP65. Assuming it's only loft above they wont need to be fire rated

CoXen

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1. Those are not "low voltage" lights: //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:voltage-bands
   
2. This work is notifiable.
   
3. You'll need structures over the lights which provide sufficient clearance and which will allow you to re-instate the insulation over them in the loft to avoid a Part L contravention.
   
4. The structures will need to be sealed to the ceiling to prevent air from the bathroom getting into the loft and causing a Part C contravention.
   
5. Downlighters are a very poor choice for room illumination as they are specifically designed to not be suitable for that.
   

 

[microkid]

Interesting...

As an aside what about if I decide to fit my own design of multicolour LED down lights, these use standard down light style housings, along with ultra high intensity LEDS, which are hermetically bonded into them, with a sealed diffusing lens.

We have also designed special deforming seals to minimise any acoustic transmission or bleed through so I think keep moisture from the loft should be fine.

The power fed to each LED channel is PWM (pulse width modulated) 5 V DC.

The resulting cables will run back to my microprocessor PWM controller which has a 5VDC logic connection to the pull switch to switch things on. The power to the system is via a custom switch mode power supply module that is connected to an existing junction box use the same cable that feeds the existing light rose (so hardly touching house wiring).

Each lamp module has a temperature sensor, as does the PSU and the CPU housing. In the vent of anything occurring the PSU is automatically disconnected from the power supply.

The beauty of the system is it also connects to the wireless network and allows me to change colour using my laptop or iphone, it can react to sounds and also ambient light conditions. It’s a great system that I originally designed for illuminating large exhibition display stands. Curious how I could go about legally installing it in my house.

In case anyone is wondering the system has passed a full EMC test, so I shouldnt get any complaints about upsetting next doors telly!

 

[riveralt]

I bet it looks delightful.

Unfortunately, this seems to be an extra low voltage lighting system with other than pre-assembled CE marked lighting sets.
Therefore it will be classed as a special installation and you will still need to notifiy the Local Authority Building Control and pay the appropriate fee.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As an aside what about if I decide to fit my own design of multicolour LED down lights, these use standard down light style housings, along with ultra high intensity LEDS, which are hermetically bonded into them, with a sealed diffusing lens.

Dunno - would they do a good job of lighting up the room?

We have also designed special deforming seals to minimise any acoustic transmission or bleed through so I think keep moisture from the loft should be fine.

They're your roof timbers...

The beauty of the system is it also connects to the wireless network and allows me to change colour using my laptop or iphone,

The times I've wished I could control my bathroom lighting like that.

Curious how I could go about legally installing it in my house.

By applying for Building Regulations approval in advance.

 

[microkid]

They are CE marked... That is a requirement to be able to legally sell them... hence they have passed EMC testing and Low Voltage Directive testing, as well as various other tests.

What about if I just plug it into an existing 3 pin mains outlet? Which is how it is designed to work. Technically it is classed as IT equipment and the cables to the illumination modules are CAT5 data cables.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sooner or later I'll start remembering that the regulations have changed ...

2. This work is notifiable.

Should read

2. This work is notifiable unless your ceiling height is more than 2.25m.


And, of course, as riveralt pointed out, if you cobble together your own ELV lighting it's notifiable wherever you install it.

 

[microkid]

Dunno - would they do a good job of lighting up the room?

Well they illumnate large car display stands easily, these are pretty serious illumnation modules! so yeah no problems.

I design and build automations systems such as lighting systems, or a rotating gantry that holds a car upside down, placement systems etc... as such I have an interest in such things hence while I love loading my house with technology.

 

[microkid]

And, of course, as riveralt pointed out, if you cobble together your own ELV lighting it's notifiable wherever you install it.

I take a great deal of offense to this.

My work is never cobbled, I have build my company up over 25 years building electrical, electronic and digital control systems an the associated software. My customers come back to me year in year out because of a) the service we give b)our attention to detail and c) the fact our products are second to none!

do you even know what a PWM system is?

I came her to try and get some legal clarification – seems I came to the wrong place.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

They are CE marked... That is a requirement to be able to legally sell them... hence they have passed EMC testing and Low Voltage Directive testing, as well as various other tests.

So why did you ask how you could go about legally installing them in your house?

Are they CE marked, and sold as a pre-assembled set? Even though the individual components are CE marked, if it's not a pre-assembled set it will be notifiable.

See Schedule 4.

What about if I just plug it into an existing 3 pin mains outlet?

It's still fixed equipment, so the Building Regulations apply.

Technically it is classed as IT equipment

That sounds very dubious.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I take a great deal of offense to this.

My work is never cobbled, I have build my company up over 25 years building electrical, electronic and digital control systems an the associated software. My customers come back to me year in year out because of a) the service we give b)our attention to detail and c) the fact our products are second to none!

It wasn't meant to be derogatory.

do you even know what a PWM system is?

Yes.

And I also know that whether it is made with exquisite skill and attention to detail by the finest technicians in the world, or thrown together by idiots, if it's not a pre-assembled set it is notifiable.

I came her to try and get some legal clarification – seems I came to the wrong place.

The legal clarifications you have had are correct, so why do you think you've come to the wrong place?

 

[riveralt]

Given the sometimes wide interpretation of the law relating to Part P, it might be better if you speak to your Local Authority Building Control Officer.
They will be able to give you advice and tell you what they accept as notifiable or not. After all they are the ones that apply the rules not those on this forum.

 

[bernardgreen]

Technically it is classed as IT equipment and the cables to the illumination modules are CAT5 data cables.

How many watts of pulse width modulated power are you sending along CAT5 data cables and which cores in the cable have you allocated to carry the power.

I very much doubt the whole install could be classed as an IT equipment.

It could be classed as IT equipment controlling a flexible lighting system.

The requirements for exhibition systems are different to the requirements for domestic installations. You can put almost any approved domestic system on an exhibtion stand but it doesn't work the other way round. I am not saying your system cannot be used in a domestic situation but I would advise that you check the compliance of it with domestic requirements. Specifically on the EMC restrictions.