Does PAT testing apply to.....?
- Thread starter GRC
- Start date
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It would be a good idea for the insurance and duty of care for starters.
You have a duty to ensure that the equipment you use, and that you hire out, is safe.
You should therefore have a risk assessment to determine what sort of inspection and test regime you need.
It may be that visual inspection of the plug, plug fuse, flex, and case of the appliance before/after every hire is sufficient and you don't need a test meter.
However you need the risk assessment to justify that, and records to prove you do it.
Your insurers may impose additional requirements such as testing by a qualified person with a calibrated test meter.
You should therefore have a risk assessment to determine what sort of inspection and test regime you need.
It may be that visual inspection of the plug, plug fuse, flex, and case of the appliance before/after every hire is sufficient and you don't need a test meter.
However you need the risk assessment to justify that, and records to prove you do it.
Your insurers may impose additional requirements such as testing by a qualified person with a calibrated test meter.
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You should be able to carry it out yourself if you are competant, HSE have some examples and a good FAQ
http://www.hse.gov.uk/risk/casestudies/index.htm
http://www.hse.gov.uk/risk/faq.htm
http://www.hse.gov.uk/risk/casestudies/index.htm
http://www.hse.gov.uk/risk/faq.htm
As far as I can tell from what I've read, there is no explicit legal requirement for PAT. You are required to ensure that your equipment is safe, and PAT is a well recognised method of proving this.
Whether PAT schemes actually make anything safer is a moot point, but an argument for another place and time.
Whether PAT schemes actually make anything safer is a moot point, but an argument for another place and time.
Oh yes there is. My legally binding 3rd party insurance says so. My guess your insurance will have something to say too.
I have something like 500 items tested a year, many twice a year and its second nature to me.
Why are you so anti about such a simple thing that gives great piece of mind at such a small price?
That's not a statutory requirement, it's a condition of insurance.
The problem with a PAT sticker is that it encourages users just to think "well it's got a sticker so it must be safe", and maybe it was. There's no guarantee that it still is, and a proper visual inspection would have made that quite clear. And then there's the fact that many of the PAT services are run by incompetent morons, so them putting a sticker on something really doesn't mean it's safe.
Now your changing the words from explicit legal to statutory which is a different thing.
BUT
Your still wrong.
I have to carry £5M 3rd party insurance by statute to work on the public highway and the insurace WILL state PAT of electical items.
There isn't a problem with stickers [other than they look ugly and get mucky] and it should not make any difference to the way you treat your kit besides it doesn't need to have a sticker, the certificate is adequate.
BUT.
When you do your visual inspection can you tell how many strands of the wire have fatigued where it enters the moulded plug? OR if the earth wire is broken? OR one of the suppression caps...? OR ...? OR...? I expect several extension leads to fail every time even though they look fine to me and I give them a good visual inspection everytime I use them especially in a public place.
Its just like a MOT test, proof only that it was OK at the time of the test BUT that means it WAS good at the time. Would you say you don't need to repair your brakes on your car because the MOT's not due?
Yes I have come across rogue testers too but they do not last long in the industry.
Now tel me how you would feel if one of your clients gets an electric shock or worse gets electrouted, just because you can't be a%%%d to have a simple test done.
Now you're misinterpreting my position. I'm not against in use testing of kit at all, it's the blind reliance on PAT that gets on my nerves.
If you're using extension leads in a harsh environment, then I'd suggest that it needs to be tested far more than once a year, conversely office computers that never gets moved doesn't really need re-testing at all.
I do quite a bit in theatre and live events, and I've come across some pretty big horror stories of PAT muppets. Failing and cutting the plugs off an entire lighting rig because 15A plugs aren't allowed (read tester had never seen them before) is something of a high point. It's because you only need to do a one day course to qualify as a PAT tester that the problem arises, you don't need to understand anything. When I've worked with real electricians on PAT it's been dead easy, because they know exactly what's going on and aren't trying to blindly follow protocol.
If you're using extension leads in a harsh environment, then I'd suggest that it needs to be tested far more than once a year, conversely office computers that never gets moved doesn't really need re-testing at all.
I do quite a bit in theatre and live events, and I've come across some pretty big horror stories of PAT muppets. Failing and cutting the plugs off an entire lighting rig because 15A plugs aren't allowed (read tester had never seen them before) is something of a high point. It's because you only need to do a one day course to qualify as a PAT tester that the problem arises, you don't need to understand anything. When I've worked with real electricians on PAT it's been dead easy, because they know exactly what's going on and aren't trying to blindly follow protocol.
The way your posts are worded indicate to me that you are against having your piano's tested, if not then why your initial question, just get it done and accept the bonuses.
I run cable of all sorts in all sorts of places to provide a range of services and many of the installations are tested [but not neccessarily recorded] as would be done for a new circuit provision so the PAT is effectively done many times a year, at the very least I always check with a Martindale.
As to the 'muppets' they obviously only get used once and not paid.
Why was the tester who cut all the plugs off not stopped and thrown out? I assume at the very least he was not paid and presented with a bill for the repair of the malicious damage he caused and reported to his governing body.
Oh no.. Please don't tell me he was left alone to get on with it.
We have just rigged a village hall for a panto, all the high level circuits [lighting bars] were checked with a Martindale and all the low level kit [footlights, follow spot, sound system, video show relay etc] have all had a PAT [but not certified or recorded]. We have effectively tested around 200 cables and all the items of equipment, including the halls own fridge, kettle, microwave & Henry which have PAT labels valid to mid summer.
Much of this is done for our own peace of mind not because of the rules.
I know there are the jobs worths who insist things will be done their way, one of my pet hates at the moment is the theatres who will not allow safety chains to be used.
So as I said before just get the kit PAT, continue doing your visuals and Fannys your Aunt.
Oh and pc's do need testing, there's a big steel box on every desk connected to all sorts of other devices in the system, any one of which can develop a fault at any time, potentially making a number of items unsafe.
1) They aren't his pianos.
2) He didn't seem to be against the idea of PATing:
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