Ooh gawd...think I've discovered a better windowboard method

[Northbeach]

I'm currently fitting new windowboards around the house (slowly but surely).
After a fair bit of help and research I chose a method and set to task.

The old boards had been covered in UPVC, which in itself looked a bit of a rushed job. Unfortunately, the wood boards underneath were damaged by both the glue, nails (they were hammered into wedges in the masonry) and the bull noses had been hacked off.
The brickwork underneath had partially collapsed, but I've now made this 'good'.
Issues where the inner leaf of bricks were higher than the outer (which the windows sat on) and there was only a small 'lip' of brick to secure anything on (the original boards were held in at the front via the wedges - must've been 'floating' at the back) - that 'lip' of brick is around an inch (sometime more sometimes less) and it's not at all level 10-15mm out in places.

So, the method/madness I used was:

* prime/undercoat board first
* attach batten/s (you'll see on the pic below there are two - I had some spare rough sawn battens but one wasn't enough to level with the front.
* screw in battens leaving a little bit of the screw head out so it grips better to the chosen glue/filler
* gripfill the rear board to the small lip of masonry
* window brackets for the front, using spacers to level up

Having never used gripfill before, I was starting to curse how c*ap it was...I held the back down a bit expecting it to hold firm after a few minutes...no such luck.
I'm really struggling to get the bloody thing level - I managed to get three sides level, but one was out...and those brackets are pain to secure...I guess the whole thing has to be level first, but once secured on (glue set) you can't take if off and mark and drill the holes - I'm sure those in the game can do this easily but I was having a fight with it.

So I googled setting times for gripfill and came up with this burst of joy post:

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=131223

First of all, I now realise gripfill has to cure (which overnight it has done very well) - the rear is now secure, I just need to gripfill the front right (and weigh it down whilst it sets again) and screw in the brackets.
But this plasterboard idea makes complete sense...I have a bay window to do next and PB'ing first would make it much, much easier (and level).

Bay window (pre made good!)

So - couple of quick questions:

1: Would you recommend I ditch the current brackets method (worth still adding them even with PB on)?

2: Use 12.5mm Plasterboard, using drywall adhesive (used this to PB a cavity above a new door frame last week and it's solid - love it)?

3: As I'll still have to use battens on the lower outer brick leaf, is it necessary to prime and undercoat these (they are rough sawn treated).

Honestly...it's been a revelation to read about this new method.

 

[noseall]

I can't see what additional brackets will do that the adhesive is not already doing.

Sounds like a great method, might try it myself.

 

[Northbeach]

I can't see what additional brackets will do that the adhesive is not already doing.

Sounds like a great method, might try it myself.

Your post on that original thread was a god send/angel etc etc noseall!
Soooo pleased I happened upon it as I really wasn't doing too well with the other method. I think given the sheer 'unlevelness' of what I'm working with, that method was perhaps a little too ambitious for me...lack of experience failed me I think. Working with a pre levelled PB base will be far, far easier and having set a bit of PB using drywall adhesive last week, I found it easy to level and it sets so hard.

Many thanks for that.

 

[seasickstevie]

'unlevelness'


Nice word

 

[gregers]

packers and expanding foam,

pug the bricks back on as level as you can get.
then pre drill boards and gently fix,put packers in and get level on all planes,
then expanding foam,once set strike home the screws.

jobs a good en.

 

[Northbeach]

packers and expanding foam,

pug the bricks back on as level as you can get.
then pre drill boards and gently fix,put packers in and get level on all planes,
then expanding foam,once set strike home the screws.

jobs a good en.

Pug? I'm hoping that's a typo otherwise it's something else for me to worry about!

Pre drill - as in the underside for the brackets/straps?
With regard to the bay windows, I've reset the bricks as level as possible, but there's still the issue of the brickwork (outer leaf) under the windows being somewhat lower (and not really straight) than the inner leaf. I'm having to gripfill battens (2x1 should suffice) to get these level (ish) with the front sill (inner leaf of bricks).
The hall bricks were in a bit of a state - they were unlevel but as the boards were secured in thick propeller wedges, it didn't matter that the bricks were out of line. Despite using packers (bag of various sizes), gripfill, expanding foam and straps, it was a right old bout of fisticuffs.
That's finished now - just need to set the quarter brick back into the reveals (the way it was built - giving the impressioin of horns rather than cut from the boards), plaster and paint (final skim will be some way off due to house refurb).

So, I'm going to try the PB method on the bays. I've managed to fit two lots of the three boards on a single piece of PB (9mm only so doubling up)and level with adhesive...I have a feeling this will suit me better.

Many thanks!

 

[stuart45]

packers and expanding foam,

pug the bricks back on as level as you can get.
then pre drill boards and gently fix,put packers in and get level on all planes,
then expanding foam,once set strike home the screws.

jobs a good en.

Pug? I'm hoping that's a typo otherwise it's something else for me to worry about!


Many thanks!

Pug means mortar in Sussex.

 

[noseall]

Ex-foam is ok but it can be unpredictable.

The method i suggested is both simple and predictable with all the adhesives behaving themselves and doing a pretty good job.

I do like to use ex-foam when say fitting cav clodgers as the foam helps prevent cold bridging whilst doing a fab job of sealing any gaps. I do like ex-foam but i have found it to be a pain with things like door casings where exact measurements/tolerances need to be maintained. The push of the foam can upset this sometimes.

 

[Northbeach]

packers and expanding foam,

pug the bricks back on as level as you can get.
then pre drill boards and gently fix,put packers in and get level on all planes,
then expanding foam,once set strike home the screws.

jobs a good en.

Pug? I'm hoping that's a typo otherwise it's something else for me to worry about!


Many thanks!

Pug means mortar in Sussex.

Haha - so it really is another piece of terminology I need to consider (should I be in the 'Sussex' area ) Cheers.

One more thing - can anyone let me know how to best mark the bisect angles when placing the bay windows boards on the sill? I'm placing the left and right boards down (cut square initially) then placing the front board on top then using the point where they bisect as my angle to cut. It's a bit tricky with bull noses, but I believe there's a little tip/trick/made up device which helps you with this...?

Cheers.

 

[Northbeach]

Ex-foam is ok but it can be unpredictable.

The method i suggested is both simple and predictable with all the adhesives behaving themselves and doing a pretty good job.

I do like to use ex-foam when say fitting cav clodgers as the foam helps prevent cold bridging whilst doing a fab job of sealing any gaps. I do like ex-foam but i have found it to be a pain with things like door casings where exact measurements/tolerances need to be maintained. The push of the foam can upset this sometimes.

I've got some of the pink ex foam...can't say it's a joy to use. I managed to get a small dab on a chair and the veneer will come up before that stuff does. I've added some underneath the front of the board, but you're right in that you can see it would push the boards up (I'd strapped the hall board in by this stage so was just using to fill gaps). Took a fair while to fully expand too which I can why one would over compensate when applying (without the experience).

Anyhow - will let you know how I get on with the PB method - really do think in my situation (the aforementioned brick levels being as they are) this will suit me down to the ground

Many thanks.

 

[noseall]

If you were to scribe a parallel line following the sill of the window, say 3" out, then where the point of the change of direction occurs on the sill, draw a line to the point of the change of direction on your parallel line and this is the angle of the cut.

Clear as.....?

 

[Northbeach]

If you were to scribe a parallel line following the sill of the window, say 3" out, then where the point of the change of direction occurs on the sill, draw a line to the point of the change of direction on your parallel line and this is the angle of the cut.

Clear as.....?

Putty? Madras? Dark Velvet curtaining?!

Nope...struggling with that explanation...I think! I'm placing the boards like this below. The point where they bisect is where I'll mark on the front of the boards - this is the bullnose however, and I'm not sure I can exactly follow that round to the horizontal on the board (does that make sense?! )

 

[noseall]

Once you have dabbed your plasterboard get yersel a pencil a piece of wood and a bevel.

Using the piece of wood (2"+) as a spacer draw a parallel line onto the plasterboard following the sill.

Draw a line then from the change of direction points bisecting the same point on your parallel line.

Drop the bevel onto this bisecting line to give you the angle then cut yer board.

Simple!

 

[Northbeach]

Once you have dabbed your plasterboard get yersel a pencil a piece of wood and a bevel.

Using the piece of wood (2"+) as a spacer draw a parallel line onto the plasterboard following the sill.

Draw a line then from the change of direction points bisecting the same point on your parallel line.

Drop the bevel onto this bisecting line to give you the angle then cut yer board.

Simple!

Parallel line being the front edge of the central board, a line which will extend into the left (and right) board - then do the same on the front edge of the left and right board. Tried this quickly on 3 pieces of paper - the angle seems to be around 140 degrees ('ball park figure') - does that seem right...won't I have to half the angle. I don't own a bevel, but could nip out to a shed and purchase a standard one. Does it matter if the PB is not particularly spot on? I was intending to cut this approximately (using the old boards as templates)?

Cheers.

 

[Northbeach]

Bit of a pain in the a$$ update...

I've ordered a bevel, but it probably won't turn up till tomorrow. In the meantime I tried the original method of placing the boards on top of each other on the sill (left and right underneath the front). Where these bisect I marked up the bullnose. From that mark (on each board) I drew the diagonal into the corners of the boards. I'm not particularly adept at marking (correctly) the bullnose as it curves round to the top of the board...I think this is where I've gone wrong. Think there's a made up tool to get this right, but I couldn't find the info for it.

As you can see from the pic, my right board is out from the the front - the left one was (somehow!) nearly spot on - little bit out at the rear, but this will be covered anyway (there's a void from the back of the boards to the window).

The PB base has worked wonderfully - managed to get them spot on via dabbing....but as I've cut the PB to make a number of 'bases' I've sometimes had to use the cut side of the PB - this is going to make that bevel method a bit off isn't it?

As is stands, I took a bit of here and there, both of the front and right board, but it appears (as it never quite matched) I've taken too much off now....will need to purchase some more redwood boards (fortunately I can use the one's I cut in other rooms).

Without having straight PB front edges, is there any other way I can use the bevel to get my joints spot on? Place them on top of each other again, but use the bevel for the angle this time?

Yours highly frustrated....