how to get rid of my builder

[gnougnoume]

I found this:

If you got a quotation then you dont have to pay extra but if it was an estimate then you might.
An estimate is exactly that - the builders estimate of what the costs could be so it may have cost him more to buy materials, pay labour etc.
If its a quotaion that is legal and binding and you are not required to pay extra costs


We never signed anything, it was just a quote on a A4 sheet of paper.
What about unforeseen extras like he said for the sewage (he added £4500) and even if he did it we always argued on the price.

 

[gregers]

dont pay anything until you have obtained the services of a building surveyor let him do a report on the problems he finds.

 

[^woody^]

A quotation is a firm figure which can not be changed without your agreement. An estimate can be varied, but only by what is reasonable. Neither of which has to be in writing or in a set format. However the contract must be fair, and can have certain things implied into it. If the contract does not mention certain things, then they are normally assumed based on typical industry practice or terms

In any building work there is inevitable "unforeseen" work. This is work which can never ever be planned for - things like the council inspector wanting deeper foundations, or drains not where they were expected to be. It is things like that. Things which could never ever be seen or assumed. Not things which were forgot or missed off due to poor experience or bad estimating.

Now, for any "unforeseen" work, it is implied that the work will be required and will need to be paid for (unless the quote specifically states it is included). So then the work must be valued accurately - either using a typical hourly rate, daywork rate or a 'reasonable' quotation. Materials in these circumstances should be on a cost plus 10% basis at the most.

There may be other work which is asked for by the client or needed because of design changes or the knock-on effect of design changes. Again these should be priced 'reasonably'

However in general, a quote or estimate for a normal extension should not ever vary by more than a about 10% for the quoted work - unless there are some significant alterations to do with foundations or drainage, or such things out of the builders control

I don't want to get into nit-picking the work in the images. If you think it is substandard, you either don't pay or get it looked at by a third party and get a report detailing what is wrong with the work. The additional drainage figure does seem high, but we don't know what was involved

Remember that it is your money. If you hang on to it, then it is the builder who will need to prove that he is owed it, and that his work is acceptable.

Your councils trading standards dept can help

 

[noseall]

If you got a quotation then you dont have to pay extra but if it was an estimate then you might.
An estimate is exactly that - the builders estimate of what the costs could be so it may have cost him more to buy materials, pay labour etc.
If its a quotaion that is legal and binding and you are not required to pay extra costs.

Load of nadgers.

If the contract changes then the price changes accordingly.

If the drawing asked for a metre dig and i quoted for a metre dig and subsequently had to dig out say 1.4m then you would be charged more.

However, all extras have to be discussed and agreed prior to carrying on with the work. Some unscrupulous builders may invent extras or be vague/ambiguous with their quotes so as to encourage extras.

 

[noseall]

Bah, beaten by Woodbrain!

 

[^woody^]

Bah, beaten by Woodbrain!

 

[^woody^]

The biggest problem with extras which always catches customers out, is how they are priced.

When things change, then there will be costs and the customer thinks that the builder has them to ransom and they have to pay whatever the builder asks for

Having an agreed day or hourly rate specified, will enable both parties to see how extra work is to be priced.

Also having an agreement that builders have to get specific agreement where unforeseen work may exceed a set amount (say £100), otherwise it wont be claimable can help.

Builders should also ensure that similar arrangements are made known to the client, so as there is not a big dispute at the end.

 

[gnougnoume]

I can't figure out why anyone would leave junction boxes with additional wires hanging from the ceiling, is there to be a false ceiling or something? Even still, screw terminals aren't meant to be used in areas which are not accessible.

As some of the electrical work is in a kitchen and a shower room is he using an electrician who can self certify compliance with part p of the building regulations?

Is that light switch which isn't screwed back live? If so it is criminal to leave it like that. Also makes my attempts at plastering look good

Untitled

• gnougnoume
• 3 Feb 2013
• 2

This is the inside of the socket and yes if i put a bulb it will work

 

[gnougnoume]

The biggest problem with extras which always catches customers out, is how they are priced.

When things change, then there will be costs and the customer thinks that the builder has them to ransom and they have to pay whatever the builder asks for

Having an agreed day or hourly rate specified, will enable both parties to see how extra work is to be priced.

Also having an agreement that builders have to get specific agreement where unforeseen work may exceed a set amount (say £100), otherwise it wont be claimable can help.

Builders should also ensure that similar arrangements are made known to the client, so as there is not a big dispute at the end.

Is 50% extra reasonable? from 20 to 30k?

Also £150 is i can remember to put that unit underneath the sink? an old unit we had?
You have seen the picture of the shower room, he quoted £700 for a finished work, then now as it is now he wnats £900 extra for the wall because he didn't want to put bricks so we supplied the bricks and cement, £450 to drill the concrete for the toilet drain and we suplied th ebig nachine to do it. So Woody is £1600 justified for the state it is now? how mcuh will he want to finish it? the shower , the toilet and sink, the tiles?

 

[southwesterly]

Get on to your local building control department in the morning before 10.30 and ask why they have allowed the extension to get to such a stage with such shoddy workmanship. Also speak to your local Trading Standards officer within your local council. When you say 'surveyor' do you mean that the person who designed the extension was/is also the contractor?

 

[gnougnoume]

Get on to your local building control department in the morning before 10.30 and ask why they have allowed the extension to get to such a stage with such shoddy workmanship. Also speak to your local Trading Standards officer within your local council. When you say 'surveyor' do you mean that the person who designed the extension was/is also the contractor?

yes the contractor calls himself a surveyor, he is ACIOB, i caled them and they cannot find any record of him.

 

[noseall]

Get on to your local building control department

Building control have no remit over the quality of workmanship only that the stages of work that are inspected, satisfy reg's.

A building can look like a dogs dinner and pass building regulations or it can be dressed up like a tarts boudoir and fail all inspections.

 

[gnougnoume]

Are there any law acts I can mention to him regarding safety or breach of contract for time taken or poor workmanship?

 

[jeds]

You need some professional input on this. At the least they have carried out some pretty poor quality work but they have most likely also carried out illegal electrical work and I wouldn't mind betting illegal gas work as well. I was wondering where the ACIOB surveyor came into this but your last post seems to indicate he is actually the builder. If so then I have serious doubts over his credentials and competence. Did you not have any drawings and specification? Was there not some form of terms and conditions of engagement?. I am RICS myself but working with no T&Cs is a very serious breach of prefessional conduct.

You need to make a formal complaint to CIOB - in writing. They may say he's not one of ours but they should still pursue somebody making unauthorised use of their name and qualifications. You also need somebody to record the condition and value of your works as they stand. Go to the RICS 'find a surveyor' website. Then you need that person to advise you on a course of action.

 

[gnougnoume]

You need some professional input on this. At the least they have carried out some pretty poor quality work but they have most likely also carried out illegal electrical work and I wouldn't mind betting illegal gas work as well. I was wondering where the ACIOB surveyor came into this but your last post seems to indicate he is actually the builder. If so then I have serious doubts over his credentials and competence. Did you not have any drawings and specification? Was there not some form of terms and conditions of engagement?. I am RICS myself but working with no T&Cs is a very serious breach of prefessional conduct.

You need to make a formal complaint to CIOB - in writing. They may say he's not one of ours but they should still pursue somebody making unauthorised use of their name and qualifications. You also need somebody to record the condition and value of your works as they stand. Go to the RICS 'find a surveyor' website. Then you need that person to advise you on a course of action.

The surveyor (ACIOB) is not the builder, he had 2 builders who were doing everything. A plumber installed the boiler, but we stil lhave no certificate for it as he wants money, also he said we need to upgrade the pipes and then all radiators will work (they were working with old boiler).

We had no terms and conditions given, no drawings (he said he would then complain we wre suppoed to give him drawings).
I challenged him for the aciob and he said he had his certificate, but when i called aciob they could not find his name anywhere.