Conventional boiler.... comeback Combi all is forgiven!
- Thread starter jdillon
- Start date
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It all depends on the controls.
In theory it would use a little more, but then convenience often is at a cost.
For what it is worth, my hot water cylinder (Thermal Store) has 50mm of insulation and stays hot for 24 hours.
It is also kept at a steady 60 degrees.
Your cylinder will be slightly less efficient, but tucked in the cupboard like that I would say it is worth trying for a week just to see if the performance improves for you.
I should add it is 330 litres, 2m tall and over 2' wide.
In theory it would use a little more, but then convenience often is at a cost.
For what it is worth, my hot water cylinder (Thermal Store) has 50mm of insulation and stays hot for 24 hours.
It is also kept at a steady 60 degrees.
Your cylinder will be slightly less efficient, but tucked in the cupboard like that I would say it is worth trying for a week just to see if the performance improves for you.
I should add it is 330 litres, 2m tall and over 2' wide.
nothing is cheap any more.
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We dont actually know how big his cylinder is.
Nor I think do we know how many people live there and what water consumption they use.
However he does not seem to leave his hot water to be heated all day and thats probably the problem.
Tony
Nor I think do we know how many people live there and what water consumption they use.
However he does not seem to leave his hot water to be heated all day and thats probably the problem.
Tony
T
TellMeWhy
jdillon, you have an old inefficient boiler, a Mexico, and the pipework looks cowboyish and an old, cheap, inefficient cylinder as well, which looks too small. To get the water system working to the levels you are used to you are going to have to spend.
I have a high efficient ATAG combi with 1.5 bathrooms and it works wonderfully. Make sure you have 22mm pipework from the stoptap to the combi. It fills a bath quick enough, it is not like the cheap B&Q slow hot water combis, with the shower belting out. It can handle two showers at once, although with both at a reduced rate but adequate enough. I have rarely had both on at the same time. ATAG make some large hot water output combis. They are not cheap but about the best boilers made. You get what you pay for. In your case you gain a cupboard as well, and get rid of that noisy shower pump.
Combis cannot do 3 bathrooms (not that I know of, but I am sure I will be corrected) , but for the average house the quality models work very well. I wouldn't be without it.
EDIT:
I just read you have three bathrooms not 1.5. There are some 2 bathroom combis and depending on use it may do a three bathroom house as how often will all three be used at the same time? Only hotels need to supply all bathrooms simultaneously. Look at your usage of the bathrooms. Look at at the large ATAG combis. A new large cylinder and a new boiler can be more expensive than a top rated combi. A combi will fill bath after bath and not run out of hot water. I just looked up my combis specifications and it does around 16 litres a minute in hot water flow without adding any cold, so more flow in reality. The larger ATAGs do around 25/26 the last time I looked.
I have a high efficient ATAG combi with 1.5 bathrooms and it works wonderfully. Make sure you have 22mm pipework from the stoptap to the combi. It fills a bath quick enough, it is not like the cheap B&Q slow hot water combis, with the shower belting out. It can handle two showers at once, although with both at a reduced rate but adequate enough. I have rarely had both on at the same time. ATAG make some large hot water output combis. They are not cheap but about the best boilers made. You get what you pay for. In your case you gain a cupboard as well, and get rid of that noisy shower pump.
Combis cannot do 3 bathrooms (not that I know of, but I am sure I will be corrected) , but for the average house the quality models work very well. I wouldn't be without it.
EDIT:
I just read you have three bathrooms not 1.5. There are some 2 bathroom combis and depending on use it may do a three bathroom house as how often will all three be used at the same time? Only hotels need to supply all bathrooms simultaneously. Look at your usage of the bathrooms. Look at at the large ATAG combis. A new large cylinder and a new boiler can be more expensive than a top rated combi. A combi will fill bath after bath and not run out of hot water. I just looked up my combis specifications and it does around 16 litres a minute in hot water flow without adding any cold, so more flow in reality. The larger ATAGs do around 25/26 the last time I looked.
Its not the number of bathrooms thats relevant but the number of baths/showers taken.
I know of huge properties with just one person!
So you would install a 24kw combi in a 4 bed 3 bathroom house because one person lived there ?
My system is not a good metric for that question as the design is not conventional and it is not used as a conventional cylinder.
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Being realistic you will have to bite the bullet for the best option that wil be a new modern spec boiler and larger capacity unvented cylinder with updated controls, believe me anything else will be false economy.
Your property has too many hot water outlets for a combi.
Your property has too many hot water outlets for a combi.
I'll bet that the Hot Water recovery is slow because it is probably GRAVITY PRIMARIES !! There is NO Cylinder Stat fitted to the cyliner!! there's the clue! 
As a user, this is my take on it.
I live in a house with conventional open vented hot water cylinder, and always have done. I would need a very, very, very good reason to consider living in a house with a combi. As in, for most situations, a combi would be last (or very nearly) on my list of options to consider.
However, we've always had proper controls on the heating (something Dad was always ahead of the game on) - where we used to live, the guy servicing the oil boiler would comment on how clean it was since the stats did away with most of the short cycling that was normal for systems of that age installed with no stats anywhere.
As a minimum, consider a controls upgrade - it probably wouldn't cost much at all to get a good chunk of the possible benefits. At present (assuming there's no cylinder stat), when the system is set for hot water, the boiler will turn on and off on its own stat - regardless of whether the cylinder needs any more heat. Just adding a thermostat to the cylinder will allow the boiler to come on when the tank needs heating, and turn off again when it's hot. This would then allow you to leave the hot water on all day (or at least from before you get up to when you go to bed) with very little cost to worry about - without a cylinder stat, doing this would mean the boiler short-cycling all day.
If the system is that old, then the cylinder is probably quite slow at heating up. Just replacing it like-like with a modern fast recovery cylinder would make a big difference - after running it down, it would reheat a lot faster. The cylinder itself isn't expensive, but you'd need some plumbing changes which may be easy or difficult depending on your current system layout. If there's room, you could fit a larger one for negligible incremental cost.
Just remember that in the 60s, most systems were like you have. It was normal to put the hot water on when needed - and this was seen as a distinct advance on having to light a fire to get hot water from the back boiler ! Most also had a switch in the kitchen (or somewhere easily accessible) for turning the immersion heater on when hot water was required. These things seem quaint these days - but they were "modern" at the time.
I live in a house with conventional open vented hot water cylinder, and always have done. I would need a very, very, very good reason to consider living in a house with a combi. As in, for most situations, a combi would be last (or very nearly) on my list of options to consider.
However, we've always had proper controls on the heating (something Dad was always ahead of the game on) - where we used to live, the guy servicing the oil boiler would comment on how clean it was since the stats did away with most of the short cycling that was normal for systems of that age installed with no stats anywhere.
As a minimum, consider a controls upgrade - it probably wouldn't cost much at all to get a good chunk of the possible benefits. At present (assuming there's no cylinder stat), when the system is set for hot water, the boiler will turn on and off on its own stat - regardless of whether the cylinder needs any more heat. Just adding a thermostat to the cylinder will allow the boiler to come on when the tank needs heating, and turn off again when it's hot. This would then allow you to leave the hot water on all day (or at least from before you get up to when you go to bed) with very little cost to worry about - without a cylinder stat, doing this would mean the boiler short-cycling all day.
If the system is that old, then the cylinder is probably quite slow at heating up. Just replacing it like-like with a modern fast recovery cylinder would make a big difference - after running it down, it would reheat a lot faster. The cylinder itself isn't expensive, but you'd need some plumbing changes which may be easy or difficult depending on your current system layout. If there's room, you could fit a larger one for negligible incremental cost.
Just remember that in the 60s, most systems were like you have. It was normal to put the hot water on when needed - and this was seen as a distinct advance on having to light a fire to get hot water from the back boiler ! Most also had a switch in the kitchen (or somewhere easily accessible) for turning the immersion heater on when hot water was required. These things seem quaint these days - but they were "modern" at the time.
T
TellMeWhy
Have you seen the high flow of large combi in operation? They are very impressive. Do not compare them with the cheap and small versions. I prefer my quality combi, which does what I want of it, to any big expensive stainless steel cylinder job (copper cylinders rot after about 10 years) that takes up space and runs out of hot water. Times move on. Move with them.
EDIT:
All depends on if the cold water main is fine. Which is the same for a mains pressure unvented cylinder.
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