Any Air rifle shooters in here

[KenGMac]

Hi board.

I and my Son shoot Air rifles, NOT at "things" but at metal targets, this form of outdoor shooting is Hunter field Target [HFT for short]

Are there any "other HFT or Air gun shooters" in here [anywhere]

Reason for this post is that the Scottish government intend to introduce a licencing system for Air "weapons" BUT only [obviously] in Scotland.

There is a petition against this proposal.

If you are a shooter and would like to sign this petition against the Scottish governments proposal please post here and I will provide a link to the web site.

As an aside I also [try] to shoot indoor 10.M air pistol, despite having a Styer SP5 my results look like a shotgun hit.

Also try to shoot indoor prone .22 rim-fire but not too good at this get an average of 92 / 94 [out of 100]

As an aside I would be interested in any comments as regards "shooting" as a sport and the general perception of this "sport"

Cheers Ken

 

[noseall]

My wife and eldest go to gun club every week and fire air pistols and rifles at targets.

The wife has great pleasure in showing me her grouping, which i might add, ain't bad.

Weird though, they don't hold the stock rather they rest it on their fist.

Proper out-doorsy my missus. Started calling her Mrs Grylls.

 

[KenGMac]

noseall, Hi

I know what you mean, the way a shooter holds a rifle, with a fist like rest and generally two fingers each side of the stock is actually fairly stable as a shooting "platform"

Actually Ladies have an "advantage" [according to my Son] in that they can "rest" the left hand elbow on their hips.

It is as you say a really out-doorsey sport, grouping is a seriously major part of the training for the sport

As for me I am reasonable with a rifle, but seriously poor with Pistol, other people are round the other way, good with a pistol but not with a rifle.

It is all about control of heart rate, breathing, sight of the target, and practice, a lot like all of the other sports

Cheers.

Ken

 

[Alastairreid]

Ken, i'm not an air gun user or any other gun for that matter so am a bit ignorant when it comes to this subject.

The reason for my post is to ask what the problem is in introducing licensing for air guns?

 

[KenGMac]

alastairreid, hi.
First of I have no objection to Licenses, however the overall cost and bureaucratic nightmare it will bring to the Police in Scotland who will be responsible to implement it is huge, plus other costs that will have to be incurred, both by the State and by private individuals.
To recap, the SNP have in their Manifesto a pledge to introduce licenses for air weapons.
The government up here then undertook a “consultation” of the replies received some 87% of respondents were against the proposal to introduce Licenses. But the Government proceeded with their proposals. My opinion is that there is an outside “possibility” that the pro lobby mobilised, but then why was there no anti lobby mobilisation?
The pro lobby then organised a “Facebook” petition to which over 22,000 people signed up all against the proposed legislation for licensing.
The Scotland Police Superintendents body are against the introduction, because it is the hard stretched police that will be responsible to issue and monitor the Licenses. I for one would rather see Officers on the beat rather than embroiled in masses of paperwork.
It is [very conservatively] estimated that there are well over 50,000 air weapons in Scotland right now, in Attics and Cupboards all over the place.
The Regulatory Review Group who has cast their eye over this entire thing has stated that the Implementation impact assessment was not undertaken.
Notwithstanding all the above the SNP Government are going full steam ahead with the Legislation.
As for costs? The individual air weapon owner will have to pay between £ 20 and £ 40 for the License, goodness knows what the Admin cost could be [just think of the cost of the modification of the Software that manages Fire Arms Certification alone?] as I understand it any holder of an FAC will have to have the fire Arms Certificate “modified” to include an air weapon at a cost to the FAC holder.
There is to be [I believe] an Amnesty to allow owners to hand in air weapons, but the SNP will only pay a maximum of about £150 / Weapon. This will be challenged in that when [real] handguns were banned the full value of the weapon being handed in had to be given, OK a lot of the weapons that will be handed in are in poor condition, old-faulty, as good as being in-operative but some could be old but highly prised models, for example in My original post I mentioned that My Son has a “Styer” target indoor Pistol, cost new of these is about £1.1 K ?Some other indoor and other target rifles exceeds £ 2,5K - £ 3.0k
There is a massive volume of information but you have to dig a bit, try [if you are interested]in the following links [if they work? ]
And against try
Now to finish Glasgow are about to host the Commonwealth games, fine where does the shooting event take place?
In a place called Barrybuddon? An old MOD range near Arbroath, The organisers could have got it further away from Glasgow but Lossymouth is busy and Saxa Vord is trying it on too much. And as for “Legacy” where the newly built [at huge cost] facility could benefit all disciplines of shooting from Shotgun to full bore and then down to air weapons will not happen. Once the games have been completed the entire facility will be torn down, as above at no inconsiderable cost, as an aside the indoor Badminton arena will I believe suffer a similar fate?
Is it just me as a shooter feeling haunted and hounded? All I want is to enjoy my chosen sport
Sorry if I have inundated you BUT? The overall cost of all of the above is truly immense, and by the way I have serious reservations that the Housing Scheme “ned” is going to apply for a License, He / She probably drives a car without a Licence, which is far more lethal than an air weapon?
Ken

 

[Alastairreid]

Thanks for the heads up and your informative post Ken.

The main reason i was thinking it wouldnt be such a bad idea was to take the freely available guns off the streets and out of the hands of the irresponsible neds.

But as you so rightly point out It wont stop those who disregard such bits of paper.

 

[foxhole]

Used to have a Jackal .22, which was very accurate could knock nails in at 30 feet with tel sight fitted. Police gave it a funny look when stopped with it in my car, it's modelled on an assault rifle.

 

[KenGMac]

foxhole, Hi.

I think I know what you are getting at, those rifles were designed [I believe] as exactly that a look alike for an Assault rifle.

There are still a lot of [dare I say] modern manufacturer's who produce almost exact replicas of such weapons, mostly it must be said for use as "Air Soft" or "Paint Ball" where Army style "simulation" is sought.

I have never ever shot with a "jackal" but would like a go, having said that the by far preferred Calibre used by the vast majority of "HFT" shooters, is now .177 who shoot at steel plate targets in the shape of Animals / Birds, Etc. with a [so called] "Kill Zone" of 15.MM to 20.MM Diameter at ranges of 8 Yards out to 45 Yards and even further. As an aside at the club I am a member of last Sunday I [at last] managed to knock down a target at a distance of about 55 Yards, after several attempts I may add. all of course using a "Scope" with cross hair and "Mill Dots" both vertical and horizontal to give you scope to allow for windage and distance.

Believe it or not there are Computer programmes available that will tell you how many "Mill Dots" you need to aim either above or below the cross hair to allow for distance? on the shot above I was aiming some 2 and a Quarter mill dots BELOW the cross hair to allow for the trajectory drop of the Pellet.

Even the "Target Shooters" who wear those strange looking shooting jackets and compete in the Olympics and other games shoot 0.177 it appears that the trajectory "drop off" is far less with the .177 rather than the .22. I believe there is a mix of weight of pellet and air resistance that combine to make .177 a more viable calibre

The design of these rifles for all disciplines is astounding, modern manufacturers are all pulling out all the stops in the area of design, a quick Google of "Air Arms "or "Styer" or for "military looking weapons try Air Soft weapons.

The modern rifles and pistols tend to use a system called "PCP" standing for Pre-Charged Pneumatic where a tank is an integral part of the weapon, this tank is Pre-charged to a pressure of [an astounding] 200 BAR this reservoir of air is then used to propel the pellet BUT and this is a big BUT the weapon must NOT exceed a muzzle velocity of 12 Ft. Lbs. If it does you need a Fire Arms Certificate to own and fire one

See what happens when you tap into a post started by a real shooting nerd?

Ken

 

[mattylad]

My eldest lad is an avid Airsoft player, if the police were ever to see his bedroom I think they would have a fit.

His play guns look so much like the real thing, he dare not take them outside unless bagged up.

 

[KenGMac]

mattylad, Hi.

Given that this branch of shooting, much enjoyed by a huge number of participants has developed and expanded into a massive market is a testament to demand and supply.

I must admit I for one do not fancy the idea of being stuck, even through very heavy body armour does not appeal? I am too much of a coward to attempt this branch of the sport.

Having said that some of the weapons that are available are truly remarkable. In fact the diversity of styles, designs, and capabilities of such weapons are at the cutting edge of technology.

I can empathisempathiesur sentiments as regards a Police officer looking at a room full of weapons and pulling in the Fire Arms Squad.

I must admit that given one of my previous posts I am a wee bit concerned even in moving my rifle from my house into my car in case a "concerned" member of the public objects, even although the rifle is in a bag? given some of the views and pressures I feel have been exerted by the Licencing legislation that is being promulgated up here>

Sorry if I am "banging my drum" about my previous post, but I am feeling slightly intimidated and slightly pensive about even carrying a "gun" even as above in a bag from my Home to my car, even if the "gun" is an air rifle, or on odd occasions my sons indoor target air pistol ?

Cheers and lots of luck to your Eldest in following his chosen sport

Ken.

 

[noseall]

it's modelled on an assault rifle.

Dead clever that.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Used to have a Jackal .22, which was very accurate could knock nails in at 30 feet with tel sight fitted. Police gave it a funny look when stopped with it in my car, it's modelled on an assault rifle.

Could have been worse - you could have stopped a few rounds from an MP5.

 

[stillp]

Used to have a Jackal .22, which was very accurate could knock nails in at 30 feet with tel sight fitted. Police gave it a funny look when stopped with it in my car, it's modelled on an assault rifle.

Could have been worse - you could have stopped a few rounds from an MP5.

A friend of mine who's a copper told me many years ago that a colleague of his was using one of the radar speed guns with a shoulder stock and scope, when suddenly a car he'd targeted veered off the road, knocked him down, and one of the occupants kicked the 'gun' away while the other pinned the copper to the ground and stuck an automatic in his temple. Turned out they were 2 SAS guys returning from an undercover assignment in Northern Ireland...

 

[KenGMac]

I heard a STORY? ?

A Policeman on a very unused highland road was using a hand held speed camera, because he had to "tick the box" in terms of his workload and targets [excuse the pun PLEASE]

It was a slow day [two tractors and a three wheeler?]

Getting bored [easily] this unfortunate Officer tried to get a speed reading on an overflying RAF Jet that was on manoeuvres using the hills and mountains to practice the skill of staying below the Radar.

One of these jets came screaming up the valley and the copper wondered how fast it was going?

Our local constabulary aimed the speed camera at the jet and squeeze the trigger [as one can]

Unfortunately the Electronic Countermeasures within the very fast flying jet detected the signal from the hand held speed camera, thought it was being "Attacked / targeted" by a surface to air missile and responded accordingly.

The Jets Electronics sent back an massive electronic "pulse" as a countermeasure that caused the hand held speed camera to burst into flame.

I did not find out what the Sargent said about the loss of a costly bit of kit?

Never mind what the Pilot felt like when all the alarms activated in the aircraft?

Ken

 

[mattylad]

Methinks thats just an internet myth.

I really don't think they can send countermeasures like that and destroy a hand held radar gun. Just like I didn't believe it when I first heard the story some 15+ years ago.