Regulations regarding a buried spur to power garage?

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

If and I say IF you get the builder to dig the hole make sure that the sparky witnesses the depth and protection in the hole - I've seen builders saying the hole is xxxmm deep whereas in reality it was half xxxmm deep.

Sure we don't like digging hole but I NEVER allow anyone bury a cable I'm going to sign off.

Anyway - do you have guidance re the depth under the track/path - this sounds very fishy to me.

Good advice.

I have a letter saying they are happy for it to be done, as long as it is done properly. No stipulations at all. But this is the next thing to a private driveway really.
Out of interest, if it was on my land only would all the same rules apply?

So if it is good advice are actually employing an electrician then?

 

[Murdochcat]

There are no exact rules, but you require to prove what has been done is compliant to the relevant regulation

That's what I'm asking for. You can't say there are regulations but no exact rules - the regulations ARE the rules.


This is essentially a DIY project I am hiring someone to do the donkey work. This is a DIY forum. If I need to have an electrician do part of the job or sign it off, that's fine. But I need to know which parts... he isn't going to dig a trench but equally it's no good him turning up and telling us our trench is illegal and he won't do his bit of the job. I want to be clued up in advance.

God this is hard work!

You say you have permission to dig up the track/path - what depth did they stipulate?
Then ask the sparky you are going to use if its suitable.
Then get the hole bug.
When you dig this up how are your neighbours going to access their property??

 

[d000hg]

You can choose to ignore me if you wish and be quite blinkered about and wait for someone to give you answer you want to hear, it may not particular be the correct or safe answer, but that is up to you.
I have offered you sound and safe advice, it is true you do not need to be qualified to take on electrical tasks, but by law you do require to make sure what you have done is safe. And safety is not proved by ticking an imaginary box when plugging in and the lights come!

With all respect, you're a random person on the internet who has not provided any evidence you know anything about the subject. This is why I ask for references to regulations, because if I search the web I can find people stating with total authority "the rules say X" and other people saying "I'm an electrician, that's illegal and dangerous".
Just because you tell me your advice is sound and safe doesn't actually mean much without knowing who the person is giving it. It doesn't seem much to ask that you could refer me to the relevant rules/laws if you are an expert.

 

[Murdochcat]

If and I say IF you get the builder to dig the hole make sure that the sparky witnesses the depth and protection in the hole - I've seen builders saying the hole is xxxmm deep whereas in reality it was half xxxmm deep.

Sure we don't like digging hole but I NEVER allow anyone bury a cable I'm going to sign off.

Anyway - do you have guidance re the depth under the track/path - this sounds very fishy to me.

Good advice.

I have a letter saying they are happy for it to be done, as long as it is done properly. No stipulations at all. But this is the next thing to a private driveway really.
Out of interest, if it was on my land only would all the same rules apply?[/quote]

So its on your land - lay the cable on the surface and drive over it twice per day.

You really don't want advice do you??

 

[d000hg]

You say you have permission to dig up the track/path - what depth did they stipulate?

See what I already wrote... they didn't.

 

[Aragorn84]

Ok lets put it a different way.

For an electrician (or anyone else) to sign off the work, they need to sign that they've designed, installed and tested the circuit and that it complies with BS7671.

If you "do all the donkey work", THEN attempt to employ a spark to connect the ends up, how can he legitimately sign that piece of paper? He hasnt designed it, and hasnt installed it, so he cannot sign to say hes done these things. Now ofcourse you might find a dodgy guy who will, and thats up to you.

Theres nothing stopping you DIY'ing it, and in that case, you yourself could "sign it off", but again your signing that you've designed, installed and tested it to comply with BS7671.

One approach would be to employ the electrician NOW, before the work starts, so that HE designs it, its installed to HIS specifications under his direction and then HE can connect it up and test at the end. He'll probably still be perfectly happy for you to do the donkey work of digging the hole, dragging the cable into place, backfilling etc, afterall most people would prefer an easier life.

OR, if you want to DIY it, then you need to ensure you've designed, installed and tested the installation to the required regulations. The regulations are quite vast and extensive, and while you might pick up snippets on here, no-ones going to type out every single regulation that might apply are they? Instead you get the book and read it for yourself.

 

[d000hg]

So its on your land - lay the cable on the surface and drive over it twice per day.

You really don't want advice do you??

Now you're being thick. I assume on purpose. If it was on my driveway there would be no justification for going down 2 feet. One might reasonably go a foot, knowing you get one car a day or so and that nobody is coming to dig it up. On someone else's land, you don't have those assurances so you might expect different, stricter rules.

Hence the question - just as electrics in your bathroom have different rules to those in your living room. Hardly difficult to grasp.

 

[Murdochcat]

You say you have permission to dig up the track/path - what depth did they stipulate?

See what I already wrote... they didn't.

Well that's where you must start - go back and ask them.

If I were the sparky working with you and you asked me to install, inspect & test and then energise a power supply passing under a public/private track I would think twice about even quoting you.........

 

[Murdochcat]

So its on your land - lay the cable on the surface and drive over it twice per day.

You really don't want advice do you??

Now you're being thick. I assume on purpose. If it was on my driveway there would be no justification for going down 2 feet. One might reasonably go a foot, knowing you get one car a day or so and that nobody is coming to dig it up. On someone else's land, you don't have those assurances so you might expect different, stricter rules.

Hence the question - just as electrics in your bathroom have different rules to those in your living room. Hardly difficult to grasp.

No, you are being a PRICK.

 

[d000hg]

Thanks aragorn that is exactly the kind of answer I was after.

Does the wiring in the garage actually have to be done at the same time, or can a cable be laid and "capped off" for this to be done later - would an electrician balk at leaving it unfinished, not knowing what you are going to do with it?

I'm sure my builder has an electrician he can recommend, I know he worked with one on a recent project. He reckons he can do all this himself as a spur and if it was on my own property I'd probably be happy with that, but going through someone else's land there would seem a much higher probability I would actually be asked to prove the work is legit.

 

[d000hg]

No, you are being a p***k.

I'm not really interested in a ****ing match, or bashing egos. Just advice from people who know what they're talking about and are happy for me to do with that advice as I see fit.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

With all respect, you're a random person on the internet

Which you are always going to find when accessing a forum for advice, if you have concern regarding the validity of my advice or any others on a forum, well it is really quite pointless you asking the question, isn't it?

who has not provided any evidence you know anything about the subject.

Obviously you have not read my replies to you then!

This is why I ask for references to regulations,

The regulations do not state a specified depth, but guidances to the regulations will recommend one, which has already been posted, if you want to confirm this, I suggest you purchase the electricians guide to the building regulations.

because if I search the web I can find people stating with total authority "the rules say X" and other people saying "I'm an electrician, that's illegal and dangerous".

I have already given you my advice on this, what you propose to do is not illegal nor dangerous providing that the depth of the trench, will prevent mechanical and environmental damage to the cable, such as ground subsidence! And the circuit/circuits are designed, installed within the the requirements of BS7671:2008 and inspected, tested and certificated as stated within BS7671.
Also compliance to part p is essential but generally by complying to BS7671 part p is also covered.
With respects to notification this could depend on where in the UK you lived.
Just because you tell me your advice is sound and safe doesn't actually mean much without knowing who the person is giving it. It doesn't seem much to ask that you could refer me to the relevant rules/laws if you are an expert.[/quote]

 

[Murdochcat]

No, you are being a p***k.

I'm not really interested in a p******g match, or bashing egos. Just advice from people who know what they're talking about and are happy for me to do with that advice as I see fit.

So lets go back to the start. Do you have the "legal" go ahead to pass an electrical cable from your property across property you don't own?

 

[Aragorn84]

Thanks aragorn that is exactly the kind of answer I was after.

Does the wiring in the garage actually have to be done at the same time, or can a cable be laid and "capped off" for this to be done later - would an electrician balk at leaving it unfinished, not knowing what you are going to do with it?

I'm sure my builder has an electrician he can recommend, I know he worked with one on a recent project. He reckons he can do all this himself as a spur and if it was on my own property I'd probably be happy with that, but going through someone else's land there would seem a much higher probability I would actually be asked to prove the work is legit.

I suspect the wiring could be terminated into an Empty consumer unit or DP isolator, but i wouldnt think it would just be left hanging if its connected up at the house end.

I would suggest that a dedicated circuit is far better. A spur is a bit nasty for a few reasons. Say the garage gets damp and causes the house electrics to trip out, as a spur you've just taken out probably half the house. Given its going underground, and thru someone elses land, i'd also want to go big. You'll be kinda ****ed off if you install it with a small cable spurred off a 13A FCU, then in 2/5/10 years time you realise its not enough.
Theres also the issue of extending the house equipoential zone to the garage, if you do this the "earth" needs to be quite large to properly meet the requirements for a bonding conductor, and you will find it difficult/impossible to achieve this as a spur from the house.

 

[d000hg]

Thanks...

Prentice - no offence meant but as I said I've seen people who clearly know nothing dispensing advice with utmost authority, which IMO is really dangerous. People who take the "I did my house and nobody died" argument to mean that they are an expert So I merely meant to ask if you are an electrician, than to imply your advice was wrong!

Murdochcat - I have a letter from http://www.trinityestates.com who manage this development, saying they are happy for me to get this work done as long as it is up to spec and I make good to the road. Nothing more than that.

Aragorn - sorry yes I meant properly terminated!